Evangelicals Against Mitt

The American Spectator ^ | 1/3/2008 | Carrie Sheffield

[tantiboh]

Mitt Romney is facing an unexpected challenge in Iowa from rival Mike Huckabee, who has enjoyed a groundswell of support from religious voters, particularly evangelical Christians wary of the clean-cut former Massachusetts governor because of his Mormon religion.

The common worry among evangelicals is that if Romney were to capture the White House, his presidency would give legitimacy to a religion they believe is a cult. Since the LDS church places heavy emphasis on proselytizing -- there are 53,000 LDS missionaries worldwide -- many mainstream Christians are afraid that Mormon recruiting efforts would increase and that LDS membership rolls would swell.

...

THE ONLY PROBLEM with those fears is that they don't add up. Evangelicals may be surprised to learn that the growth of church membership in Massachusetts slowed substantially during Romney's tenure as governor. In fact, one could make the absurdly simplistic argument that Romney was bad for Mormonism.

...

ONE WAY TO GAUGE what might happen under a President Romney would be to look at what happened during the period of the 2002 Olympic Winter Games. Held in Salt Lake City, they were dubbed the "Mormon Olympics."

...

Despite all the increased attention, worldwide the Church grew only slightly, and in fact in the year leading up to the games the total number of congregations fell. Overall, from 2000 to 2004, there was a 10.9 percent increase in memberships and a 3.6 percent increase in congregations.

...

The LDS church is likely to continue its current modest-but-impressive growth whether or not Romney wins the White House. Perhaps the only real worry for evangelicals is that, if elected, the former Massachusetts governor will demonstrate to Americans that Mormons don't have horns.

Carrie Sheffield, a member of the LDS Church, is a writer living in Washington, D.C.

[fallingwater]

It’s sent out to those that go about trying to destroy the Mormon Church. They go along copying and pasting acting like they have original content. So the name I gave those people would be DRIVE BY ANTI MORMON BLOGGERS. Those same types went around in the 1800’s spreading this also. They tried to kill my forefathers in the 1800’s. Making up quotes or taking someone out of context.

Of coarse this wasn’t aimed at one person. Sure wasn’t aimed at FreeRepublic. My gosh, I’ve been on here every since Bill O’Reilly mentioned FreeRepublic on his show. Now I spend more time on here than I do watching O’Reilly.

[MHGinTN]

I don’t know how old you are, but have you ever read the Joseph Smith King James English ‘Translation’ of the King James Bible?

[Dan(9698)]

OK since your fellow Drive By Mormon Basher couldn't explain why you don't believe doctrine taught by Apostolic Christians, but rather the doctrine of the trinity, could you give me a referenced explanation of how it changed?

Don't give me the "well Theophilus used the word before Tertullian" explanation. Theophilus may have used the word, but he was not writing about the trinity as you believe it.

Why do you not accept the doctrine taught by the Apostolic Christian Church? and what is the actual source of the doctrine of the trinity in use by many Christian Churches?

Are you going to get all petulant and call me names like your fellow basher did?

[Dan(9698)]

Ok, refute the statements I have quoted from the Catholic Encyclopedia and Johns Hopkins press.

I know your technique from debating. It is called "Lump and Dump."

With things for which you cannot give a plausible answer, just dismiss as a mass and say that those can be refuted with not effort at all.

It sounds very educated and beneath you to consider them.

You never really answer the question that is raised.

[MHGinTN]

(Sigh) This appears to be the extent of your capabilities. Sad really. Imagine what a mess the media will make of folks like you if Mitt gets the Republican nomination! ... Who’s on First, Binks?

[Dan(9698)]

OK if I can summarize your beliefs then. Those who don't teach your doctrine of the Trinity aren't christians.

It doesn't matter that the doctrine comes from the New Prophecy of the Montanists. (Reference, the quote from Johns Hopkins press.)

The Apostalic Christian Church taught that they were separate persons. (Reference Catholic Encyclopedia)

That makes no difference, those who disagree with you are not Christians.

Therefore the conclusion is that the Apostalic Christian Church were not "Christians"

Does that just about sum it up? If I have twisted any words, point them out to me.

[MHGinTN]

"Where have I twisted your words? TELL ME! Play with my tarbabyt! ... You know we're trained to twist things this way, so you can't compete in the deceit market with us. We're professionals!" [MormonDude reflecting on his missionary training]

The problem is expecting non-hyperbolic honest discussion from a Mormonism Apologist

[DelphiUser]

13 ‘Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road is easy* that leads to destruction, and there are many who take it. 14For the gate is narrow and the road is hard that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

15 ‘Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles? 17In the same way, every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus you will know them by their fruits.

21 ‘Not everyone who says to me, “Lord, Lord”, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only one who does the will of my Father in heaven. 22On that day many will say to me, “Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many deeds of power in your name?” 23Then I will declare to them, “I never knew you; go away from me, you evildoers.”

Darth, let me show you how this is done: First, I like to link, because that keeps me "Hones" and if I take something out of context, I know quickly, because somebody will call me on it (honest!)

A Link looks some thing like this: <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/matt/13/14-15#15">Matthew 13:14-15</a>

When that is displayed in the Forum, it will look like this: Matthew 13:14-15

Then, I like to set off my quotation with margins, so it's easier to wknow where the quote is, Parts that need to be set off, I wrap in <B>Bold</b> then I end every scripture with a line break so they line up nicely and are easy to read, like this:
<blockquote>
    14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing <b>ye shall hear, and shall not understand</b> and seeing <b>ye shall see, and shall not perceive</b>:<BR>
    15 For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; <b>lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them</b>.
</blockquote>
I don't put a <BR> on the last scripture because the block quote ending will end the line anyway.

Which looks like this when finished.

14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Thus, when I post scriptures, people can find them quickly, and they are easy to read, her is your scriptural quotation done my way.

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a ccorrupt tree bringeth forth devil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

You have attacked my religion, you have called me names, you have damned me to Hell and said I was not a Christian, I have corrected you as gently as I could, I have not called names, I encourage all to pray unto God, if you truly believe the Bible, judge me by my works. Judge yourself the same way, others will if you don't.

Darth Vader, Jesus Lives, he loves you, I know this because I have prayed about it, and received an answer. It is my fondest hope that you and all withing the sound of my voice (OK who read my posts) will pray to god and come to know him better.

Go with God.

[Dan(9698)]

You said you could refute my statements.

Well, get at it, refute away.

If you actually can't, then what I have found is confirmed as correct. I did not make any of this up. It is from neutral sources.

Usually what happens at this point is, the bashers go bash somebody else.

[DelphiUser]

The novelty of Mormonism heresies are striking for a short season, but Salvation never grows old.

Good thing we have salvation to fall back on once the "Novelty" wears off then...

Mormonism sells Mormonism, not Salvation.

Actually, we sell nothing, we offer salvation for we have been commanded to teach of Jesus Christ.

You’ve been a Mormon missionary, you ought to know that.

I've been a Mormon Missionary, I don't know that for it is false.

If it is not He who is in you, to will and to do of His good pleasure—instead of ‘all that you can do’ ... well, son, you know the rest and are tired of it.

All that we can do is what we have seen Jesus do, and all that he asks us to do He then makes up the difference.

That ought to tell you something, tantiboh.

IF you are feeling tired of your discussion, maybe you should try the anti's version of devil's advocate for a while, argue for the church, you never know, you might like it.

[MHGinTN]

Grab hold, I command it! [Mormon professional] ...

[Dan(9698)]

I didn’t realize you were here.

I didn’t mean to leave you out.

I found some more that beares on our prior discussions.

Review what I found and posted on post 617. It is another reference on the source of the doctrine of the Trinity.

You will find it interesting.

[Dan(9698)]

Is this what bashers do when they throw in the towel?

[DelphiUser]

We don’t have to reason with heretics nor discuss doctrine with you.

That's right, you could just cease to post... LOL!

There is no academic nor theological argument you can make to justify your position, period.

Yes, there is, we can argue from the Bible, as I have been doing, the Book of Mormon, the D&C, or even the Pearl of great price, I have used all these in the past exclusively and together. I consider it a challenge to put together an argument with on hand tied behind my back as it were (by only using the Bible) which the anti's here cannot refute. It's fun for me.

It doesn’t exist.

Neither do you... (did you disappear? Unfounded assertions work that way)

We just command you in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth to repent of your false teachings.

Nice, Right back at you...

You might want to read this scripture:
Acts 19:13-16

13 ¶ Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.
14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.
15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?
16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

I have in the name of Jesus Christ, by the power of his priesthood, healed the sick, cast out devils, blessed the infirm, spoken in tongues, and you are going to command me? This is funny.

Mormonism has already been proven to be a cult by credible Christian apologetics ie. Ankerberg, et. al.

Bwahaha! only if you only read their sites, but then, maybe that's all you can handle right now.

[DelphiUser]

I’ve read the arguments from the Christian apologetics in detail. The information is so overwhelming against Mormonism it doesn’t need to be explained as God commands men everywhere to repent. Reason is not necessary in dealing with cults.

Do you know what it means to be railroaded

1. To rush or push (something) through quickly in order to prevent careful consideration and possible criticism or obstruction: railroad a special-interest bill through Congress.
2. To convict (an accused person) without a fair trial or on trumped-up charges.

"Reason is not necessary" this explains your posts which display an amazing lack of reason.

[dmw]

“I have in the name of Jesus Christ, by the power of his priesthood, healed the sick, cast out devils, blessed the infirm, spoken in tongues, and you are going to command me?”

Here is what Jesus says about that, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!” Matthew 7:21-23

[DelphiUser]

Who knows what tomorrow will bring?

More posts from anti's retreading discredited arguments to unsuspecting readers?

[DelphiUser]

I Said: Salvation is an individual thing...

U Said: And the Mormons do not have it.

ROTFLOL! I point out that salvation is measured by the heart of the person, and you respond with Group-think? You are a funny Guy, if I thought this was a joke it'd be really funny, but it's not so it's just sad.

I honestly think you are out of your depth here, take tantiboh's advice, and watch for a while.

[DelphiUser]

I Said: I won't stoop to the "Ad Homonym" attacks

U Said: ROFLOL!!

THAT never stopped you before...!!!

Gimme a break.....!!! LOL!!!

I did not say I had never attacked that way, but I also said engaging in that with him would be like sword fighting with an unarmed man, go read some of his posts here, he keeps dropping his guard, and leading with his chin, it's no fun that way...

[DelphiUser]

Darth, the problem is, you ignore all evidence and make nonsense arguments that stem from "I'm right , therefore..." and that is just pathetic.

Free republic is a forum of people, conservatives, free thinkers, with the emphasis on think. If you can't actually argue your point, then people will quickly get tired of your instant dismissal techniques for debate and your audience will shrink to the single digits.

If you post commentary, logical arguments for positions, and back that up with research, you will get respect and maybe even a group that follows your posts.

If not, well, I had not heard of you before today, and I won't remember you in a week, a lot of freepers are like that, it's called flash in the pan.

You do what you want, it's still sort of a free country...