Posted on 01/08/2008 4:09:13 PM PST by tantiboh
Mitt Romney is facing an unexpected challenge in Iowa from rival Mike Huckabee, who has enjoyed a groundswell of support from religious voters, particularly evangelical Christians wary of the clean-cut former Massachusetts governor because of his Mormon religion.
The common worry among evangelicals is that if Romney were to capture the White House, his presidency would give legitimacy to a religion they believe is a cult. Since the LDS church places heavy emphasis on proselytizing -- there are 53,000 LDS missionaries worldwide -- many mainstream Christians are afraid that Mormon recruiting efforts would increase and that LDS membership rolls would swell.
...
THE ONLY PROBLEM with those fears is that they don't add up. Evangelicals may be surprised to learn that the growth of church membership in Massachusetts slowed substantially during Romney's tenure as governor. In fact, one could make the absurdly simplistic argument that Romney was bad for Mormonism.
...
ONE WAY TO GAUGE what might happen under a President Romney would be to look at what happened during the period of the 2002 Olympic Winter Games. Held in Salt Lake City, they were dubbed the "Mormon Olympics."
...
Despite all the increased attention, worldwide the Church grew only slightly, and in fact in the year leading up to the games the total number of congregations fell. Overall, from 2000 to 2004, there was a 10.9 percent increase in memberships and a 3.6 percent increase in congregations.
...
The LDS church is likely to continue its current modest-but-impressive growth whether or not Romney wins the White House. Perhaps the only real worry for evangelicals is that, if elected, the former Massachusetts governor will demonstrate to Americans that Mormons don't have horns.
Carrie Sheffield, a member of the LDS Church, is a writer living in Washington, D.C.
(Excerpt) Read more at spectator.org ...
I would like to ask a question that keeps nagging me. Is Romney as a Mormon any more of a threat to the evangelical church than someone who attends the Methodist like Hillary, Baptist like Carter, church of what’s happening now church like Obama, whatever the other Republicans claim to attend? Do they agree with evangelicals on how to live our lives, govern our country just because they are NOT Mormon? I know the answer but I am trying to pinpoint the concern with Romney being a Mormon other than totally being against the Mormon church.
Wanna explain why LDS not only ignore & run 180 away from the following passages in 3 Nephi 19?
"...he [the Mormon Jesus]..COMMANDED them that they should kneel down...that his disciples should kneel down upon the earth....he commanded his disciples that they should pray. And behold, they began to pray; and they did pray UNTO Jesus, calling him their Lord and their God...Father...they believe in me...and they pray UNTO ME...he came unto his disciples, and behold, they did still continue, without ceasing, to pray UNTO HIM...And it came to pass that Jesus blessed them as they did pray UNTO HIM; and his countenance did smile upon them, and the light of his countenance did shine upon them...And Jesus said unto them: Pray on; nevertheless they did not cease to pray...And when Jesus had spoken these words he came again unto his disciples; and behold they did pray steadfastly, without ceasing, UNTO HIM; and he did smile upon them again; and behold they were white, even as Jesus." (3 Nephi 19:16-18,22,24-26, 30)
All: For those reading this who don't yet understand the implications of the above...well LDS general authorities teach that you don't pray directly to Jesus...You pray directly to Heavenly Father (in Jesus' name). So the LDS Jesus is only an LDS conduit, NOT a recipient of DIRECT prayer.
So, yes, I'm given a direct conflict between 3 Nephi 19:16-30 and what McConkie taught!
Go, ahead take back those words: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints does not “inserts itself between you & God” as you claim, it is God’s way of helping us to return to Him.
Another example is McConkie's claim at that BYU devo not to worship Christ, other than to be "in awe" of him and "reverentially grateful." (Give me a break!)
That also runs counter to not only the Bible (example: Hebrews 1:6), but to the Book of Mormon:
4 Nephi 4:37: 37 Therefore the true believers in Christ, and the true worshipers of Christ, (among whom were the three disciples of Jesus who should tarry) were called Nephites, and Jacobites, and Josephites, and Zoramites.
2 Nephi 25:29: 29 And now behold, I say unto you that the right way is to believe in Christ, and deny him not; and Christ is the Holy One of Israel; wherefore ye must bow down before him, and worship him with all your might, mind, and strength, and your whole soul; and if ye do this ye shall in nowise be cast out.
3 Nephi 11:17: 17 Hosanna! Blessed be the name of the Most High God! And they did fall down at the feet of Jesus, and did worship him.
3 Nephi 17:10: 10 And they did all, both they who had been healed and they who were whole, bow down at his feet, and did worship him;
See also: Jesus was the God of Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob, 1 Nephi 19:10. Christ was the God of the Nephites, 2 Nephi 1:10, Moroni 8:7-8. Jesus was the Lord God, the Holy One of Israel, 2 Nephi 6:8-9. Jesus was God, the great Creator, 2 Nephi 9:5. Jesus created the heavens and the earth, 3 Nephi 9:15. There was a God, & he was Christ, 2 Nephi 11:6-7. Jesus was the Christ, the Eternal God, 2 Nephi 26:12-13. Jesus was the Lord Omnipotent, who came down from heaven, Mosiah 3:5-8,17-18. Jesus was God himself, Mosiah 13:34, 15:1, Alma 42:15, 3 Nephi 11:14, Ether 3:18. Christ was God, the Father of all things, Mosiah 7:27. Jesus was the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth, Mosiah 15:4, Alma 11:38-39. Jesus is God, D&C 6:2,21,37, 11:2,28, 14:2,9. Jesus is our God, D&C 17:9, 18:47, 27:1, 38:1. Jesus is the Great I AM, D&C 29:1, 38:1. !
Fred, let me spell this out: There is not a single thing you can spin, twist or distort (like McConkie has) to convince me or most of us that 2 Nephi 25:29 is a mere reference to "awe-ing" Christ or being "reverentially grateful." I mean, you're not serious, are you? You don't think that a description of wherefore ye MUST bow down before him, and worship him with ALL YOUR MIGHT, MIND, AND STRENGTH, AND YOUR WHOLE SOUL; and if ye do this ye shall in nowise be cast out is just a "Gee, thanks, Rev. Jesus...we're in awe of you...and when it comes to a higher form in our worship re: Heavenly Father, why we go out even more than all our might, all our mind, all our strength, and even beyond our whole soul...and we bow down even lower..."
It's exactly this kind of obfuscation that makes us non-Mormons laugh at the extent you go to not concede the obvious...and then you recommend it for everyone else to be as confused as Mormons!
~”Critics wonder why the French word “adieu” appears at least twice in the Book of Mormon, when it was supposed to have been translated from the golden plates into English.(Jacob 7:27; 5:48). BTW, the French word didn’t exist in the time when the passages claimed in the BM were supposed to have been written then imprinted on the illusory metal plates.”~
Umm... Hate to break it to you, MHG, but not a single word of the Book of Mormon existed when it was scratched onto plates, because English had not been developed yet.
Joseph Smith was free to use any word he chose to convey the proper meaning. The word ‘adieu’ conveys an “until we meet again” connotation that doesn’t really exist in any English word. It is, therefore, a more accurate representation of the concept being described. If Joseph Smith had been “making up” the plates, wouldn’t he have just used English and avoided the potential nattering on the part of people such as yourself?
This is perhaps the most intellectually vacant argument that exists in the whole pantheon of misbegotten attempts to discredit the Book of Mormon. That it is coming from you is a genuine surprise. It puts fundamental doubt into the degree of serious, critical thought that you have put into the topic - it is, frankly, amateurish.
If you KNOW the answer, you probably also know that Mitt has taken this vow in the mormon temple multiple times: You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the Law of Consecration as contained in the Doctrine and Covenants, in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion.
Are you guaranteed that his oath of office would come before this oath to his church?
Do they agree with evangelicals on how to live our lives, govern our country just because they are NOT Mormon?
I don't know of any Evangelicals that have made that vow...do you?
~”Just a little derogatory comment on Catholics and Baptists.”~
You’re twisting my point, Greyfoxx, and you know it. Not that it’s a shock.
Thanks for the ping, though.
I do believe that Elsie’s assuming you’re LDS simply because you aren’t attacking us. Funny, isn’t it?
Oh ok thanx. I knew an interpreter would be along shortly. :-)
Hardly complimentary....kind of comparing "all" Catholics and Baptists, aren't you? Perhaps you didn't exactly mean that?
You’ve repeated this sentence very many times:
“Are you trying to convert us to the Christ, as you understand Him, or just to be another nasty poster?”
+++++++++++++++++++++
And you have never answered it.
The Boy Scouts allegation is a MassResistance fabrication.
Here’s a link to a comprehensive refutation by Sekulow:
http://www.evangelicalsformitt.org/front_page/jay_sekulow_responds_to_boy_sc.php
Caution: Do not click the above if you are incapable of complex thought.
Hi, My mane is Colofornian, and I can post a post so big no one will refute it, of course, no-one will read it either, but I'll know I was right because size really does matter.</Satire>
This hateful sentiment has no place on FR. I have to assume that 99% of this long thread is saying much the same thing or else it would have been pulled long ago.
The fundamental problem here is that the anti-Mormons can’t countenance the thought of having Mormonism legitimized into the mainstream of religious thought, as would certainly happen were Romney to be elected. As long as they can paint us into the corner of being a kooky little cult, they think, then we can be marginalized as irrelevant.
For these people, the primary motivation is their distaste of the LDS Church, which they often try to conceal beneath a fig leaf such as “flip-flopper,” “RINO,” etc. Helps ‘em blend in with people who have a valid ideological reason to criticize Romney.
Well Said!
Of course my point was different from what you’re painting it to be. I’ve already addressed it in this thread. I don’t think any less of Catholics and Baptists because of Kennedy and Carter because I have additional context that tells me that their adherents are generally honorable people. Many people don’t have that experience with Mormonism - their first real exposure to the LDS Church is happening now with Romney, and will increase if he’s elected President. And if they don’t like him? Will they transfer that dislike to the LDS Church? There’s a good chance of that; this is one reason why I think the idea that a Romney presidency would cause a spike in the growth of the LDS Church is poppycock.
No, it hasn’t been pulled. I kind of like that because the bigots are making fools of themselves. Try fast-forwarding 1500 posts or so, it’s getting pretty raucous back here.
This thread has been going for weeks. Might as well weigh in. I have little interest in religion except academically. I’d vote for a Mormon but I’d NEVER vote for another evangelical. Mr. Carter and Mr. Bush, evangelicals who made it to the White House, were anything but great presidents.
My one evangelical friend has been touting Romney for months. She thinks he’s the best candidate.
I just saw Hugh Hewitt on CSpan’s Booktalk touting his book about a Mormon in the WHite House...I didn’t realize how smart a fellah Mr. Romney is. Hewitt mentioned his “incandescent intelligence.” Academically and in the business arena at least. Political smarts? Hopefully. But I think he comes off like Ken of Barbie and Ken fame. Be nice if he could come up with one or two more facial expressions to help him put his message across.
++++++++++++++++=
Going by what i have seen of your writings, to those who disagree with you, I can only conclude that all of your study of the gospel is to find out how to put down the “Mormons” and not to learn the truth there in.
Maybe tomorrow...I’m winding down tonight :)
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.