Evangelicals Against Mitt

The American Spectator ^ | 1/3/2008 | Carrie Sheffield

[tantiboh]

Mitt Romney is facing an unexpected challenge in Iowa from rival Mike Huckabee, who has enjoyed a groundswell of support from religious voters, particularly evangelical Christians wary of the clean-cut former Massachusetts governor because of his Mormon religion.

The common worry among evangelicals is that if Romney were to capture the White House, his presidency would give legitimacy to a religion they believe is a cult. Since the LDS church places heavy emphasis on proselytizing -- there are 53,000 LDS missionaries worldwide -- many mainstream Christians are afraid that Mormon recruiting efforts would increase and that LDS membership rolls would swell.

...

THE ONLY PROBLEM with those fears is that they don't add up. Evangelicals may be surprised to learn that the growth of church membership in Massachusetts slowed substantially during Romney's tenure as governor. In fact, one could make the absurdly simplistic argument that Romney was bad for Mormonism.

...

ONE WAY TO GAUGE what might happen under a President Romney would be to look at what happened during the period of the 2002 Olympic Winter Games. Held in Salt Lake City, they were dubbed the "Mormon Olympics."

...

Despite all the increased attention, worldwide the Church grew only slightly, and in fact in the year leading up to the games the total number of congregations fell. Overall, from 2000 to 2004, there was a 10.9 percent increase in memberships and a 3.6 percent increase in congregations.

...

The LDS church is likely to continue its current modest-but-impressive growth whether or not Romney wins the White House. Perhaps the only real worry for evangelicals is that, if elected, the former Massachusetts governor will demonstrate to Americans that Mormons don't have horns.

Carrie Sheffield, a member of the LDS Church, is a writer living in Washington, D.C.

[outofstyle]

I’m not a Mormon

Neither am I. And, I am not crazy about Romney for many reasons. However, I do think that he is probably the best shot that we have against Hillobama. It does appear to me that there really is religious bigotry at play on our side. This has been a very disappointing.

[colorcountry]

I'm sure if it was important to me I could find the information

Could you find out for me? I really would like to know since it is of interest to me. So far I have been unable to find the number. It doesn't seem to be something that can even be extrapolated from the membership figures the Church releases each year. The death rate seems to be much, much lower than we should expect from a population the size of Mormon membership. I just don't see how ex-members could be figured at all in those numbers.

Perhaps your analytical mind could help me discern it. Would you please help?

[Eva]

Frankly, it is precisely the religious bigotry, both against Catholic Rudy Giuliani and Mormon Mitt Romney that has caused me to give a second look to both of these men.

First, we had the religious bigots, now we have the secular liberal, independents in New Hampshire, trying to define the Republican party. I reject both.

[CommerceComet]

The National Council of Churches in 2005 (latest figures I can find quickly) lists the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day saints as the fastest growing church in the USA.

How much of that growth is due to missionary successes and how much is due to the fact that the LDS Church promotes large families? Until that mix is known, your fact cannot be used to disprove the statement that the missionary activities are having poor results.

[restornu]

Amazing to think the world could hurt the things of the Lord, when God plan is already known in the end the only thing not known is who will be among the elect!

The Church grows by the Power of the Holy Ghost and no other way.

I guess some here thinks it is like a Spa membership!

[KC_Conspirator]

Yes, but I know a pointy headed Christian who says he is not voting for Romney becuase he is a Mormon. Makes me want to scream.

[restornu]

Wouldn't it be much simpler if Mormonism gave up their secret oaths, covenants, clothing, ordinances and reliance upon works of the flesh and simply came to Christ for redemption. It seems the only way.

Don't seem to be working for you, I remember when you used to had a loving disposition!

[Terrence DoGood]

To not support a man based solely on his religion is not what American’s are about. That’s liberal, identity politics garbage and we’re better than that. That’s embarrasing.

[okie01]

Oh, okie, I hope this was humor...

No, it was ignorance.

[colorcountry]

I've been searching for numbers of LDS resignations, and I can't find a figure ANYWHERE. I did find this:

In light of BBC reports about the Romney campaign, which described the LDS Church as the fastest growing church, I thought it would be fun to quick check LDS exit rates according to the General Conference Statistical Report.

Table 1. Official Membership Statistics


Colluvium kindly shared his spreadsheet. Although I suspected inconsistencies, the results were so improbable that I had to replicate a part of Colluvium's data collection. The anomalies persisted.

From the Statistical Reports in the Ensign available at lds.org, I have compiled a spreadsheet that depicts the total number of Mormons, the number of births, and the number of convert baptisms by year between 1973 and 2005.

As the data has been copied and pasted, typos are unlikely. However, I would be grateful if someone would take it upon themself to double check. Please, blame me for any mistakes and report them.

Between 1988 and 1996, the Statistical Reports did not contain data about the births or blessings of children, which required the use of baptismal data instead.

Table 2. Calculating Exit Data


I calculated the exit data by adding the number of births and conversions to last year's membership number and subtracting this year's membership number. The subtraction ought to render the number of people that exited the LDS Church, which may include deaths and resignations.

Amazingly, a negative number of people left the LDS Church in 1975, 1989, 1990, and 1999. Assuming that not one single member died in 1999, for example, 8,456 Mormons rose from the dead to join the LDS Church.

Table 3. Highest to Lowest Exit Rate


The exit rate is the quotient of the number of exiting people and the member totals. Excluding the nonsensical negative data, the exit rate is as high as 2.48 exits in 1980 and as low .16% in 1991, a difference of almost 1,577 percent!

Table 4. Estimates Instead of Measurement


Clearly, this data is not reliable. Notice, between 1978 and 91 births and membership totals and between 1978 and 82 conversions were reported in thousands (zeros), which indicates that these figures are estimates.

The data also cannot dissuade the suspicion that only deaths but not resignations are reported as exits from Mormonism. The LDS Church did not allow for resignations until Norman Hancock settled his law suit in 1989.

Please, take a close look at the dates associated with the highest to lowest exit rates.

Table 5. Highest to Lowest Exit Rate, Again!


The higher exit rates date before 1989. Paradoxically, exit rates decline for the period when resignation becomes a possibility.

According to the CIA World Fact Book, the United States of America had a rate of 8.26 deaths per 1,000 residents. Since Mormons have larger families, especially in the past, it is probable that the Mormon death rate was substantially lower than the American average.

The CIA World Fact Book reports death rates of 4.74 and 2.58 per thousand for societies with more traditional family configurations such as Mexico or Saudi Arabia, respectively.

Table 6. Exit Rates Since 1989


Mormons might be traditional but they are not that traditional. If we ignore the nonsensical negative exit rates and focus on the time frame when resignation is an option, then the LDS exit rate is smaller than Mexico's death rate (.00474) in half the cases.

In 1991 and 1997, the Mormon exit rate is even smaller than Saudi Arabia's death rate of .00258.

Therefore it is implausible that the exit statistics deduced from annual LDS Statistical Reports include resignations.

These patterns create doubt about the capacity of the LDS Church to collect reliable data. It can neither contradict the findings of the CUNY Religious Identification Survey, which documents that the LDS Church is no longer growing in the United States, nor the findings of Mexican, Brazilian, and Chilean census collections, which indicate that LDS membership reports might overstate people's attachment to Mormonism.

When Mormon public relations officials content that the LDS Church grows the fastest, I am afraid that there are no facts that would support that claim.

[tantiboh]

~”...that the Christ that you worship may be a figment of your imagination.”~

Sorry, that doesn’t hold water. I worship the same Christ you do, and the many personal spiritual experiences I have had tell me that He is very real.

Why would you think that Christ would be any less real for me than for you? The logic of that boggles my mind.

~”Sometimes, evangelicals lose sight of who our enemies actually are.”~

I agree with that; but the irony is that the LDS Church is about the best friend evangelicals could have. We love evangelicals. They make great converts.

[tantiboh]

~”If relgion is not important, why do 92% of Mitt Romney’s donations come from Utah?

Could it be that Mormons (such as yourself) disproportionately favor Romney because he’s a fellow Mormon?”~

I refute that number. I suspect that the grammar should be that 92% of donations from Utah go to Mitt Romney. Still, the question you raise is valid.

I don’t deny that there is a subset of Mormons who support Romney -because- he’s LDS. I think that’s just as bigoted as those who reject him on the same basis.

However, does it not occur to you that Romney is a rock star in Utah? After the way he turned around the Olympics, they’ve witnessed firsthand his effectiveness as a leader. Could a great deal of his support have been generated as a result of that? Keep in mind, too, that not 92% of the population of Utah is Mormon, so Romney plainly has some cross-denominational appeal there.

[tantiboh]

~”Calling yourself a Christian does not make you one.”~

You calling me non-Christian doesn’t negate the fact that I am one. How do you justify claiming for yourself Christ’s own authority to determine who is and who is not His follower? That seems like a very un-Christian thing to do.

[tantiboh]

Good to see you, DU. It’s been a while.

[tantiboh]

It’s good when more reasonable Christians speak up about the bias. Thanks to your two for doing so.

[tantiboh]

~”How much of that growth is due to missionary successes and how much is due to the fact that the LDS Church promotes large families?”~

The ratio is about 3 to 1, if I recall correctly. Either way, does it matter? The Church is still growing.

[DelphiUser]

I Said: I'm sure if it was important to me I could find the information.

U Said: Could you find out for me? I really would like to know since it is of interest to me. So far I have been unable to find the number. It doesn't seem to be something that can even be extrapolated from the membership figures the Church releases each year. The death rate seems to be much, much lower than we should expect from a population the size of Mormon membership. I just don't see how ex-members could be figured at all in those numbers.

Perhaps your analytical mind could help me discern it. Would you please help?

First, we have to know exactly what you are looking for. New member convert retention rates for example, will tell you how many members the church loses within the first year. that is one figure. World wide averages are about 60% retention from what I have read. (That's 40 out of 100 joining leave within the first year) (while I was a mission leader in Illinois, we had a 92% retention rate for three years just because we had new member discussions with our new members)

Next we could look at inactivity rates which can be measured in several ways, 35% of those "on the books" of the Mormon church, do not attend more than twice a month and are considered "Inactive". If you are still a "Member of record" but do not attend regularly, then you fit this description, does that mean you have left? How many Catholics attend on Christmas and Easter, and a few other times a year and are considered Catholic?

Excommunications are rare, accounting for less than one tenth of a percent of the Church population (Less than .01 for 100 members) Name removal on request is also rare. There are many who after falling into inactivity, lose contact with the church (which is one reason why Home teachers try to keep up contact with them.) Sometimes they even die and the church does not know. when a person who is inactive reaches the age of 110 the church automatically removes them from it's rolls (It used to be sooner, but we had some people pop up and say, I'm not dead yet... shades of Monte Python). 50% of those eligible to hold Temple Recommends do not. Is this inactive, have they left? or are they still attending, but just having a problem with Coffee, or Internet porn, or just don't feel worthy? Who knows and this is part of the problem with giving you a nice round number.

If you are looking for a church wide world wide number, first you have to determine which indicators constitute "leaving the church" if you are saying "Exit the door never to return", no church has that number because they hope people will return, and some do and some don't. I dare say that some of your family holds out hope still (I'm Not trying to rub anything in, just a fact.)

BTW, those complaining that the 12 million (it's 13 now) is inaccurate will have to concede that we have 5.5 million that are fully active (attending two or more times per month...) and some partly active say another 2 million, to make it 7.5 Million active and partly active. Since the churches numbers are continually growing, we are bringing more in than are leaving is also a fact that is difficult to ignore. (but some of the articles find a way...) I hope my meanderings through statistics has been helpful and yes, I was able to find these numbers with google, Elder Bateman seems to be the Seventy who talks about retention and membership numbers the most, so search with his name and key words like retention, or membership and you should find articles with numbers in them. Have fun.

Oh, and please don't say we are hiding things, I even did some research for you. (I accept Cookies and Zucchini bread, pie if it was a LOT of trouble...)

[rickomatic]

~”Calling yourself a Christian does not make you one.”~ You calling me non-Christian doesn’t negate the fact that I am one. How do you justify claiming for yourself Christ’s own authority to determine who is and who is not His follower? That seems like a very un-Christian thing to do.

If you base your "Christianity" on the lies of Joseph Smith, that is, his perverted doctrine of the nature of God, then you are in fact NOT a Christian. Sorry, but that is the truth as defined by every traditional Christian denomination. You know which ones I'm speaking of. The very ones that Joseph Smith called an abomination.

[greyfoxx39]

This commercial was paid for by the Restore the Mormon gods in place of the Christian God Committee. Fred, Treasurer.

[tantiboh]

~”If you base your “Christianity” on the lies of Joseph Smith...then you are in fact NOT a Christian”~

Ah, that’s perfect. I don’t. I base my Christianity on my faith in Christ.

Thank you for welcoming me into the fold.