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The ethics of "stealing" a WiFi connection
Ars Technica ^ | January 03, 2008 | By Eric Bangeman

Posted on 01/07/2008 10:46:22 AM PST by SubGeniusX

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To: SubGeniusX
Ummmm....I'm pretty sure they should arrest all librarians....and now that I think about it, in giving me hand-me-downs I'm pretty sure my mother deprived Buster Brown of legitimate shoe sales....My mother's a CRIMINAL, right?

Shouldn't we handcuff air for improperly transmitting music?

21 posted on 01/07/2008 11:08:51 AM PST by gaijin
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To: Right Cal Gal
Well, maybe. Just stay away from sky lights, especially if you hear hovering coppers and boots on the roof.

Anyways, it’s almost all done. Over. Fini.

Google is buying the old over the air TV spectrum from the FCC. Around 4.5 billion dollars.

Next five years, everything will be a data cloud, on line, networked out there, some where.

You won’t be able to tell where your phone starts and your computer ends.

Anyways, until then, lay low, move often, have others pick up your mail. Leave chalk marks on telephone poles. Avoid dark stairwells and small midgets gangs.

22 posted on 01/07/2008 11:10:20 AM PST by Leisler
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To: KoRn

Bruce Schneier, one of the world’s most famous cryptographers, wrote an RC2-cracking screen saver. (The original WEP is based on RC2.)


23 posted on 01/07/2008 11:11:13 AM PST by flintsilver7
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To: SubGeniusX

Actually...

As a ham radio operator, I can operate WiFi at higher power levels than the normal routers come with, and I can NOT use encryption to prevent others from using the system.

(I COULD lock out all but my given MAC addresses, and there are a few other things I can do)....But I MUST ID my wifi with my callsign for connection and identification purposes.

So, theoretically, if I open mine up like that for Ham use, I can’t BLOCK it (to other hams) and I can’t encrypt it to prevent NON hams from using it (if they can get in).

That’s in the FCC regs. So, it isn’t stealing if I leave my stuff open. On the other hand if I leave my car unlocked and someone takes the car, then... it’s a stolen vehicle.


24 posted on 01/07/2008 11:11:51 AM PST by Rick.Donaldson (http://www.transasianaxis.com - Visit for lastest on DPRK/Russia/China/Etc --Fred Thompson for Prez.)
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To: Wil H

Are you the type that folds toilet paper four times before using it?


25 posted on 01/07/2008 11:12:16 AM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurtureā„¢)
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To: SubGeniusX
“It’s time to put an end to this silliness.”

I am out of my league here, as I have never had a laptop and never used a WiFi connection, but there are many WiFi
systems set up to serve the public at large.
How is one to know which is which?
Here in Bratislava, many cafes advertise free WiFi, and in the same block, the city offers Wifi in the center square.
I see as many as 15 users on park benches with laptops.

I assume that one’s private WiFi can be secured so it should be up to the owner of the network to secure it.

If a neighbor shoots fireworks on the 4th of July, is it against the law for me to watch?

26 posted on 01/07/2008 11:13:08 AM PST by AlexW (Reporting from Bratislava, Slovakia. Happy not to be back in the USA for now.)
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To: capt. norm
It is very easy to secure your wi-fi/router..

Not really..

Using commercially available encryption schemes or MAC Filtering will secure your network from the vast majority of would-be pilferers but it is no more a guarantee of security than is say, locking your car and setting a car alarm, that your car won't be stolen.

Any hacker worth his salt can break WEP or WPA encrpytion schemes within a few minutes.

27 posted on 01/07/2008 11:13:43 AM PST by Wil H
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To: Leisler

You made my morning, darlin’ - thanks!

It’s really hard to know what the state of the law is, isn’t it. I’m in my car, checking Safari (no, not driving, honest) and I get router options for the WiFi. It’s confusing. I just want to check something - maps, weather, quick peek at current Freeper headlines! But, of course, I want to keep things correct - I don’t want my neighbors’ connections to suffer because my iPhone latches onto their WiFi connect.

I have no idea how that works, as a matter of fact. When it prompts it - there are some WiFi options that have what looks like a little “lock” and all ask me for a password. However, they put me through without it.


28 posted on 01/07/2008 11:15:18 AM PST by Right Cal Gal (Remember Billy Dale!!!)
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To: Cicero
If you don’t password protect, then it’s not really stealing.

Don't ever leave your house unlocked , I might just help myself, after all, it's not really stealing, is it?

29 posted on 01/07/2008 11:15:55 AM PST by Wil H
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To: SubGeniusX
If someone was arrested because they piggy-backed on my wi-fi, I would probably bail them out and testify in their defense because I was too stupid to control what I was broadcasting.

This could all be fixed with small, simple steps. The government and law-enforcement should not be wasting time and money on this.

jw

30 posted on 01/07/2008 11:17:04 AM PST by JWinNC (www.anailinhisplace.net)
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To: DBrow

“...if you leave your front door accidentally unlocked, you should not complain when your stuff is stolen.”

I don’t think that’s an apt analogy. It’s more like - if you throw 10,000 pennies up in the air and they scatter in all directions and fall into others’ backyards, don’t complain if they get picked up.

The owner of the wireless router is transmitting. So, if anyone is trespasssing first, it’s him. But these analogies from the world of physical property and physical access just don’t work that well for the issues surrounding intellectual property, information assets, bandwidth, etc...


31 posted on 01/07/2008 11:17:37 AM PST by swain_forkbeard (Rationality may not be sufficient, but it is necessary.)
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To: SubGeniusX

This will make it even easier:

http://www.turnpoint.net/wireless/cantennahowto.html


32 posted on 01/07/2008 11:18:30 AM PST by Natural Law
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To: swain_forkbeard

re:#31

ditto


33 posted on 01/07/2008 11:19:24 AM PST by JWinNC (www.anailinhisplace.net)
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To: DBrow

Packets destined for your particular router are for all users of that router’s subnet and are addressed to the router. The packets contain your individual machine’s MAC address, though, so assuming no black hat shenanigans sorting router traffic by machine is trivial.


34 posted on 01/07/2008 11:20:22 AM PST by flintsilver7
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To: steve86

How about I just piggyback on your cellphone account and use your minutes instead of mine?

That works for me if you have no problem with other people hi-jacking your paid-for communications transmission services.

Thanks, What’s your number?


35 posted on 01/07/2008 11:21:46 AM PST by Wil H
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To: JWinNC

Great point. Some people seem to assume two things.
1. The wifi hotspot owner doesn’t want you to use it.
2. Using it has caused the owner some harm.

These two conditions are by no means universal. It’s ISPs that really have an interest in creating this new ‘crime’ and then cracking down on it.


36 posted on 01/07/2008 11:22:08 AM PST by swain_forkbeard (Rationality may not be sufficient, but it is necessary.)
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To: Wil H

WPA encryption weaknesses rest in weak passwords, not in the inherent security of WPA.


37 posted on 01/07/2008 11:23:07 AM PST by flintsilver7
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To: Wil H

A person actually owns the house, but no one owns the medium that wi-fi travels through.


38 posted on 01/07/2008 11:24:19 AM PST by stuartcr (Election year.....Who we gonna hate, in '08?)
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To: swain_forkbeard
The owner of the wireless router is transmitting. So, if anyone is trespasssing first, it’s him. But these analogies from the world of physical property and physical access just don’t work that well for the issues surrounding intellectual property, information assets, bandwidth, etc...

Technically, no. He's not trespassing. All routers are designed under FCC rules and regulations (FCC Part 15 regs) that those devices can and do transmit without licensing, must NOT interfere with other services, and MUST ACCEPT interference from other services.

Basically, this means that the owner of ANY router is not required to have a license to transmit. So, he is not "trespassing".

To access a router, however you MUST make an EFFORT to make the connection. That is, you must tell the computer (under windows for instance) that you WANT to connect to "an unsecured device" - because Windows ASKS this question of you when it notices the router broadcast.

As I mentioned before, I can set up and modify a router to have a much HIGHER power out put, different antennas and so forth, and be able to say, connect to my home router from 20 miles away. I can NOT legally encrypt that signal either, and must allow other Amateur Radio operators to use it. Others who are not hams could legitimately use that signal if their equipment is close enough and I can't do much about it. I CAN protect it by hiding the id broadcast, but under FCC rules, I can't do that either. I CAN lock out all wireless addresses EXCEPT those I am using with my machines. Thus, I can protect, without using any encryption at all, my system

So technically, a radio signal isn't really 'trespassing'.. /shrug
39 posted on 01/07/2008 11:26:41 AM PST by Rick.Donaldson (http://www.transasianaxis.com - Visit for lastest on DPRK/Russia/China/Etc --Fred Thompson for Prez.)
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To: SubGeniusX

It would seem to me it is covered under the 1930’s laws that the airways are free and belong to the people on receive mode only. When you broadcast out it might be different.


40 posted on 01/07/2008 11:27:31 AM PST by bmwcyle (BOMB, BOMB, BOMB,.......BOMB, BOMB IRAN)
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