Pro-lifer Confronts Giuliani During Speech -- 'You are a baby killer'

Christian Newswire ^ | 1/5/08 | Christian Newswire

[Hugin]

There is a major difference between a pro-abortion private citizen and a powerful pro-abortion politician who works to expand abortion.

Maybe so, but most people don't consider them baby killers either. This is about as effective as lefties calling Bush a "war criminal". Even people who oppose the target are turned off by it.

[dasein64]

And this advanced the pro-life cause in what way?

[wagglebee]

What were Hitler, Stalin and Mao? As far as I know, none of them ever personally killed anyone (except in combat) either.

[wagglebee]

And this advanced the pro-life cause in what way?

Having a pro-abortion Republican running against a pro-abortion Democrat for POTUS would be a disaster.

[Psalm 73]

"To all the wackos that would love to engage, please refrain...."

Ahhh, so anyone who disagrees with you is a wacko?
Nice - you belong over at DU.

[macamadamia]

To the best of my knowledge, Hitler, Stalin and Mao never personally killed anyone either.


This is a muddled analogy. And you left out the part where I wrote that Rudy is not "WITHOUT guilt for being pro-abortion."

[Jorge]

Can you provide a source for that?

Actually I researched the quote and found the strongest statement from Laura Bush, and a milder conditional statement from GWB.

"No, I don't think it should be overturned," Mrs. Bush told NBC's "Today Show" when asked about the high court's decision, Roe vs. Wade.

The Bush team refused to comment on the first lady-to-be's statements.
January 19, 2001 9:12 p.m. EST (0212 GMT) WASHINGTON (CNN)

However;

"Bush did not push for a constitutional amendment to ban abortion, even though he supports one except in cases of rape or incest, or to protect the life of the mother. Bush said he didn't believe there was enough public support for such a move."

Which supports my recollection that Bush said he would not try to overturn Roe Vs Wade because it was not the time to do it.

I also find the "except in cases of rape or incest" to be morally inconsistant. If abortion is murder then it is murder. It's not the baby's fault it was conceived through a rape or incest.

[highball]

This is about as effective as lefties calling Bush a "war criminal". Even people who oppose the target are turned off by it.

That's an excellent point.

I'm vehemently opposed to Rudy. But there are far more effective ways to fight him than behaving like a spoiled child who can't keep quiet when adults are talking.

[Jorge]

I doubt that any candidate, pro-life or otherwise, is going to openly state an intent to overturn Roe v. Wade. Apart from pissing off the party moderates, nobody likes the prospect of millions of angry women in the streets and millions more dollars in Democrat coffers, IMO.

Exactly. And any serious candidate would distance himself from zealots expressing some of the more fanatical positions we see in this thread.

[terycarl]

the repubs have been in office most of the time since 1973 Roe vs wade......they have done nothing except appoint supreme court justices who are more or less constructionists and who do not favor abortion

[Jorge]

To the best of my knowledge, Hitler, Stalin and Mao never personally killed anyone either.

But they authorized and directly supported killing millions.
Your comparison is poor.

And I don't think labeling popular political candidates as "Hitler" will go over any better than shrieking "Baby killer!" at them.

This sort of inflamatory and divisive rhetoric is an embarrassment to the pro-life movement.

[Das Outsider]

Having a pro-abortion Republican running against a pro-abortion Democrat for POTUS would be a disaster.

This is true. The above scenario is one better suited for the Bizarro World of SNL fame.

However, I don't think heckling Giuliani with epithets like "baby killer" really does much to advance the pro-life cause in America. Does he consider the ongoing slaughter of the unborn to be a matter of personal decision--one that's constitutionally guaranteed? He does, and it is sickening. Giuliani expects this and can simply write pro-life activists off as extremists; a number of mainstream GOPers would probably agree. Nothing was advanced, no one gave their own beliefs and presuppositions a second look--i.e., nothing was gained. Show's over, nuthin' to see here.

There really are better, more effective ways to do activism. Let's not take the low road on something this important.

[wintertime]

There really are better, more effective ways to do activism.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What do you recommend that would be better and more effective?

[wintertime]

But there are far more effective ways to fight him

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What would you recommend?

[Mrs. Don-o]

"Maybe I missed this sordid detail about the man’s past, but did he actually kill any babies himself? Otherwise, he’s not a “baby killer.”

In the sense that he's got shards of baby under his fingernails, no. But abortion is not just a damnable act: it's a damnable policy, a damnable ideology, a damnable institution and a damnable industry. To the extent that Giuliani has supported it in each and every one of those ways, he's an accessory and accomplice baby-killer.

[Hugin]

Gnerally whoever invokes Hitler in an argument loses. In any case your analogy is sloppy. There is no debate that Hitler, Stalin and Mao ordered millions of people to be murdered. First, Rudy never ordered anyone to have an abortion. Second there is no public consensus that abortion is murder. Many think it is. Many think it is not at all. And many think that killing a fetus is wrong, but not the same as killing a living breathing person. That’s why majorities oppose late term abortions often oppose some restrictions such as on late term abortions.

Anyway, comparing someone who personally opposes abortion, but does not favor outlawing it to totalitarian dictators directly ordering millions of men, women and children to their deaths shows a lack of proportion and judgement.

[Mrs. Don-o]

"Get real, get a life and stop trying to control other human beings, it is folly to even try."

As I remember, the protection of the fundamental and inalienable right to Life (even before Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness) is the most basic American political principle, according to our founding document.

But again, if you don't give a hoot for fundamental rights and basic principles, there's no need to get into it.

Why you'd call yourself a "conservative," though, is a mystery.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Oh, and by the way, “Righteousness is our cause and justice will prevail.”

[dasein64]

Boorish behavior does not advance the pro life cause.

[narses]

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Rudy Guiliani has marched in lockstep with liberals on affirmative action, gay rights, gay marriage, gun control, school prayer, tuition tax credits, liberal immigration policies, and he's reinforced it, time and time again. Just about everytime Rudy opens his mouth, offensive liberal words come pouring out. As Mayor, Rudy put liberals in high-paid city jobs, an indication what a Rudy WH would look like. Here then is Rudy in his own words:

--The New York State Liberal Party on its endorsement of Rudy Giuliani for Mayor: "When the Liberal Party Policy Committee reviewed a list of key social issues of deep concern to progressive New Yorkers, we found that Rudy Giuliani agreed with the Liberal Party's stance on a majority of such issues. He agreed with the Liberal Party's views on affirmative action, gay rights, gun control, school prayer and tuition tax credits. As Mayor, Rudy Giuliani would uphold the Constitutional and legal rights to abortion." N.Y.S. Liberal Party Endorsement Statement of Candidate Giuliani for Mayor of New York City April 8, 1989

--On the Republican Party: "Mr. Rockefeller represented 'a tradition in the Republican Party' I've worked hard to re-kindle - the Rockefeller, Javits, Lefkowitz tradition." Rudy Giuliani told the New York Times July 9, 1992

--Village Voice Interview with Guiliani: He was asked: "What kind of Republican Is [Giuliani]? A Reagan Republican?" Giuliani pauses before answering: "I'm a Republican." Village Voice January 24, 1989

--On Attending 1996 Republican Convention: Rudy expressed his pleasure when he wasn't invited to the Republican National Convention in San Diego. "If I take three or four days off from city business, I want to do it for a substantive purpose. It didn't seem to me any substantive purpose could be served by going to the Republican convention." said Rudy. Rudy! An Investigative Biography of Rudolph Giuliani, Page 459, by Wayne Barrett

--On Barry Goldwater: Giuliani described John Kennedy as "great and brilliant. Barry Goldwater as an "incompetent, confused and sometimes idiotic man." New York Daily News, May 13, 1997

--On President Bill Clinton: Shortly before his last-minute endorsement of Bob Dole in the 1996 presidential election, Giuliani told the Post's Jack Newfield that "most of Clinton's policies are very similar to most of mine." Rudy! An Investigative Biography of Rudolph Giuliani, Wayne Barrett.

--The Daily News quoted Giuliani as saying March 1996: "Whether you talk about President Clinon, Senator Dole.... The country would be in very good hands in the hands of any of that group." An Investigative Biography of Rudolph Giuliani, Wayne Barrett.