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To: LightBeam; durasell; tantiboh; PosterQue
Abortion could easily be outlawed in Iowa if Roe v. Wade were overturned by such a Supreme Court but, by insisting on the impossible, they are ensuring that abortion will remain legal in Iowa for decades to come as Ruth Ginsburg clones fill the next Supreme Court vacancies. …. Polybius

Wrong wrong wrong WRONG. "Letting the states decide" is a recipe for national disaster. You can't "let the states decide" when it comes to things like murder or slavery. We fought a war over that, remember? ................. “Abortion (murder) is already illegal, despite what the SC says. The SC can be ignored (they have no actual power over the Executive) and as Chief LEO of the Nation, the President can simply order Federal Marshals to close down abortuaries.” ..... LightBeam

You really need to get a grip on the reality of the Constitution and American History. Defying the Supreme Court and sending Marshall's to shut down abortion clinics for "murder" with Roe v. Wade on the books will only get your hypothetical President impeached and removed from office and a hard core abortion advocate in the White House.

Also, we never fought a war to specifically abolish slavery.

During the war itself, slavery was legal in Union states such as Maryland which abolished slavery of its own accord on 1 November 1864.

After the war, slavery remained legal and blacks remained enslaved in the Union states of Kentucky and Delaware until the 13th Amendment was ratified on December 6, 1865, 8 months after Lee’s surrender at Appomattox.

The Civil war was fought to save the Union.

But, don’t take it from me. Take it from Abraham Lincoln:

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I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.
I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men everywhere could be free.” ………… Abraham Lincoln, August 22, 1862 in a response to an editorial by Horace Greely of the New York Tribune which had urged complete abolition.

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During the war, the political situation in the Union was such that asking men to die to abolish slavery would have destroyed the Union war effort as even Union Generals were willing to die to save the Union but not to die to abolish slavery.

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“Neither confiscation of property, political executions of persons, territorial organization of states or forcible abolition of slavery should be contemplated for a moment. ……… Military power should not be allowed to interfere with the relations of servitude, either by supporting or impairing the authority of the master; except for repressing disorder as in other cases. Slaves contraband under the Act of Congress, seeking military protection, should receive it. The right of the Government to appropriate permanently to its own service claims to slave labor should be asserted and the right of the owner to compensation therefore should be recognized. This principle might be extended upon grounds of military necessity and security to all the slaves within a particular state; thus working manumission in such [a] state -- and in Missouri, perhaps in Western Virginia also and possibly even in Maryland the expediency of such a military measure is only a question of time. ………. A declaration of radical views, especially upon slavery, will rapidly disintegrate our present Armies. ………….. General George B. McClellan to President Abraham Lincoln, Head Quarters, Army of the Potomac Camp near Harrison's Landing, Va. July 7th 1862

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People with your minset, would, like Horace Greely, have insisted on the impossible instead of the possible.

People with your mindset would have put Abraham Lincoln to a slavery litmus test and Abraham Lincoln would have failed.

People with your mindset would have thrown a tantrum in the 1864 election and insisted on an ideologically pure third party candidate such as Horace Greely and would therefore have given the 1864 election victory to George B. McClelland.

By 1866, people with your mindset would have lost both the Union and any possibility of abolishing slavery in any Southern state for decades to come.

So it is in 2008.

You would rather keep abortion on demand legal in all 50 states for decades to come just so that you can claim moral superiority for taking a path that is doomed to failure but is “holier than thou”.

Whats the point of allowing the voters of Alabama to outlaw abortion when their daughters can just drive over to Pensacola to get all the abortions they want?

To win the battles you can win instead of trying to win everything and thereby ending up winning absolutely nothing.

“He who defends everything, defends nothing.” ….. Fredrick The Great

In the end, what makes you think that Florida would go one way or the other? If the daughter in Miami or Mobile has to travel to Maryland for the nearest abortion clinic, she might stop to wonder if the trip is really worth it and might start thinking that it would be a gift of life to keep that baby.

172 posted on 01/04/2008 7:57:55 AM PST by Polybius
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To: Polybius
Defying the Supreme Court and sending Marshall's to shut down abortion clinics for "murder" with Roe v. Wade on the books will only get your hypothetical President impeached and removed from office and a hard core abortion advocate in the White House.

Congress can only impeach the President for committing High Crimes and Misdemeanors. Enforcing laws against murder is not a High Crime or Misdemeanor. If Congress attempts to impeach a President for enforcing the law, then Congress itself is in violation of the law. Also, waving "Roe v. Wade" around isn't going to help you. Roe v. Wade is an ILLEGAL decision by the USSC, because it legalizes murder, which is against Common Law of both Man and God.

Besides, the President answers to a Higher Authority than just the Supreme Court or Congress -- or even the Constitution.

You would rather keep abortion on demand legal in all 50 states for decades to come just so that you can claim moral superiority for taking a path that is doomed to failure but is “holier than thou”.

No, I would rather the President of the United States use his God-given powers as Chief LEO of the Nation to ban abortion in all 50 states simultaneously. It can be done and only hasn't been done because our political class have forgotten the Christian roots of our nation over the past hundred years or so.

In the end, what makes you think that Florida would go one way or the other? If the daughter in Miami or Mobile has to travel to Maryland for the nearest abortion clinic, she might stop to wonder if the trip is really worth it and might start thinking that it would be a gift of life to keep that baby.

The specifics of where abortion will be illegal (and I can assure you it will be widespread) is immaterial to the fact that abortions will be happening under government approval and sanction. Its pointless to stop 100 abortions a year in South Dakota while there are 1 million a year in New York -- with full "legal" protections. It would be like Lincoln outlawing slavery in a state with no slaves, while leaving the South untouched.

Likewise, "letting the states decide" will give people the illusion that the issue has been settled.

The point is, we can't have one state outlaw murder while allowing another state to "legalize" it. Its for that reason that the President may -- no, the President MUST -- act decisively to close down murder-factories that operate in the United States. Barring that, a Human Life Amendment is the only other viable answer. However, a HLA means delay -- and while its delayed in Congress and the States (assuming that it would even be passed) more babies are being murdered. Thats an unacceptable delay.

The sad thing is, there may not be enough votes to outlaw abortion forever here in the US. If that is the case, my original point stands: the President make take whatever means necessary to safeguard and protect the lives of his citizens. Human Life is not to be decided at the ballot box.
201 posted on 01/04/2008 11:25:19 AM PST by LightBeam (Support the Surge. Support Victory.)
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