You wrote: “No, I’m not saying Hammurabi’s gods were real. I’m saying that a moral system derived by men means nothing, because there is no foundation for it. As I said, who is to say that stealing is wrong?”
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My response: If I am right that there is no evidence of, or rational reason to believe in, a supernatural god, and you are right that there is no “morality” without a god, then there is no basis for claiming that stealing is “wrong,” or at least that it is immoral. As an agnostic, why then, would I not steal? How about these reasons: First, because there is a “social contract” that in our society resulted in my state’s legislature enacting a law prohibiting stealing, I know that I may go to jail if I steal. Second, my parents indoctrinated me in the belief that stealing is wrong, and as a child, that got programmed into my belief system (as did religion, although I overcame that later in life as I grew wiser). And finally, as I grew up, the mirror-neuron system in my brain enabled me to develop empathy for my fellow man, and relevant to this illustration, it made me realize that stealing something from someone can cause great psychic, as well as financial, pain to the person from whom I might steal. Also, I personally experienced the feeling of loss that results from having something stolen. All these things have persuaded me that it is behavior I should avoid, even though I don’t believe I would be punished for it in an afterlife.
More fundamentally, it’s because people recognize that belonging to a society that proscribes theft, murder, etc, is personally beneficial, and that the benefits greatly outweigh the cost of not being free to steal stuff that appeals to you or murder people who annoy you.
Exactly, but the number of atheists and agnostics who say they can develop morality--not behavior patterns, but genuine morality--on their own is legion. Even when you gave your discourse on stealing, you described it as "behavior [you] should avoid". Well, if I got an electric shock every time I reached for oatmeal instead of cold cereal, I might decide that was a behavior to avoid, but that wouldn't mean cold cereal is morally better than oatmeal.
as did religion, although I overcame that later in life as I grew wiser
That's not what David said. "The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God.'"--Psalm 14:1