I was making a point by way of explanation. I will say this however. There is no court case you can cite that agrees that if police put out property in public and someone steals it that it is entrapment. NO COURT CASE!
"Yes, and that seems to be what is going on here - trying to get people who don't have previous criminal records (at least none that the cops involved in the sting operation knows about) to commit a felony crime."
Prove that statement! Show me where in the article that the intent of the police is to get people who don't have prior records! The police put the property out there and people are going to make their own decisions regardless of their past. The cops don't have any knowledge who is going to come by and decide to take the property Show me in the article that they know for certain!.
"There's nothing in the article that indicates that the sting was targeting a particular high-theft area or that burglars were working this area, and hence, would be more likely to be available to take the bait."
And how can you say with 100% certainty that on the day of the sting that burglars WOULDN'T be working the area? Are you THAT good at predictions? If so, you need to go into law enforcement. Cops can make good guesses based on recent trends that crooks might be working an area, but no cop that I have ever heard of can predict with pinpoint accuracy a day in advance that crimes will or will not happen in a given populated area. In many cities, burglars work the entire city. They are just as likely to hit one residential area or shopping area as another. There is no requirement for the cops to target any particular area. That might be construed as "profiling" and I am sure YOU wouldn't support THAT! It doesn't matter where the sting operation is set up. The only thing that matters is if someone takes the property.
"While the article does note that thefts from vehicles increase this time of year, again, there's no evidence that any person or groups of person with a known propoensity for this type of crime was being "stung"."
You are hinting around again that the police should be "profiling." Do you support profiling? Anyway, the result is that if no one took any property then no one was stung were they? How can you sting people who don't do anything?
"Instead, the wording of the article suggests that the police were just laying out bait and hoping that someone, anyone, would take it and get a felony arrest. They're throwing out a net, and hoping to drag in the few who would commit a crime of opportunity - again, not knowing who passing by the car may be, or even that someone who did bite on the bait was previously part of that population."
Well it takes a real sucker to take a chance on taking property that doesn't belong to him. The police just might be watching. I, and many of the FReepers here have the common sense God gave us not to take something from a vehicle that doesn't belong to us. If someone else is so jaw droppingly brain dead STUPID that they will commit a crime of opportunity and the police are watching and they get arrested - LOLOLOLOLOL! Screw them!
"I believe that what we see here is just a police effort to create criminals and justify a budget."
Well this one failed. It won't take too many of these failed stings and they will stop. Management wants stats, and zero stats is ungood.
"Which has no relevancy to what the police were doing in this case, since it was they who were initiating the transaction, so to speak."
Wrong. The police are not initiating any transaction here. They are not in direct communications with anyone. The police are passive and waiting until someone commits a "crime of opportunity." That someone could be an illegal alien, a parolee, a gang member, a drug addict, or just an innocent citizen who happens to come by and can't restrain himself and just has to commit a crime on that particular day. In all cases - TOUGH LUCK YA RETARD!
Doesn't matter. Perversion of the law is still perversion, even if sanctioned by the courts.
Prove that statement! Show me where in the article that the intent of the police is to get people who don't have prior records! The police put the property out there and people are going to make their own decisions regardless of their past. The cops don't have any knowledge who is going to come by and decide to take the property Show me in the article that they know for certain!.
Um, my whole point was that they CAN'T know for certain. I will demand you to show where in the article it says that the police were targeting those who DO have past criminal records. If you can't, then you have to admit that the police were de facto targeting the general population, including those without prior criminal records.
And how can you say with 100% certainty that on the day of the sting that burglars WOULDN'T be working the area? Are you THAT good at predictions? If so, you need to go into law enforcement. Cops can make good guesses based on recent trends that crooks might be working an area, but no cop that I have ever heard of can predict with pinpoint accuracy a day in advance that crimes will or will not happen in a given populated area. In many cities, burglars work the entire city. They are just as likely to hit one residential area or shopping area as another. There is no requirement for the cops to target any particular area. That might be construed as "profiling" and I am sure YOU wouldn't support THAT! It doesn't matter where the sting operation is set up. The only thing that matters is if someone takes the property.
That's just it - there is not a single thing that can be found in the article to show that the police were working this particular shopping centre because of previous criminal activity - none whatsoever. The problem is that the police WEREN'T profiling - they were putting something out there to try to entrap anybody and everybody, in other words, trying to create criminals where none might have existed before. Great, so burglars work the entire city - so everybody is a potential suspect. Of course, that is how many LE agencies work - off the assumption that everybody is a potential criminal, and hence, it's okay to set out entrapments like this to "root them out".
You are hinting around again that the police should be "profiling." Do you support profiling? Anyway, the result is that if no one took any property then no one was stung were they? How can you sting people who don't do anything?
Yes, I do support profiling. Just as with a search warrant, the police ought to have reasonable suspicion that an individual or group of individuals is planning, perpetrating, or has perpetrated a crime before they go and try to entrap them. What the police did in this case is morally and ethically similar to searching random peoples' houses on the off chance that they might have something illegal.
Well it takes a real sucker to take a chance on taking property that doesn't belong to him. The police just might be watching. I, and many of the FReepers here have the common sense God gave us not to take something from a vehicle that doesn't belong to us. If someone else is so jaw droppingly brain dead STUPID that they will commit a crime of opportunity and the police are watching and they get arrested - LOLOLOLOLOL! Screw them!
I agree, if someone steals, punish them as the law prescribes. My objection is to the notion of the police trying to create criminals where they wouldn't otherwise exist by throwing a juicy plum out there for people to pluck. My argument is that the police ought to stick to investigating actual crimes which have already happened, instead of trying to engineer new ones.
Wrong. The police are not initiating any transaction here. They are not in direct communications with anyone. The police are passive and waiting until someone commits a "crime of opportunity." That someone could be an illegal alien, a parolee, a gang member, a drug addict, or just an innocent citizen who happens to come by and can't restrain himself and just has to commit a crime on that particular day. In all cases - TOUGH LUCK YA RETARD!
Wrong again. The police ARE initiating the transaction because absent the initiatory action of the police in putting the unlocked cars full of doodads out there, there would be no possibility of a crime taking place. No car = no crime, and the car wouldn't be there except the police put it there.