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Ban Of Device By ATF Triggers Inventor's Ire (NRA Alert)
TBO.com ^ | 12/26/2007 | CHRISTIAN M. WADE

Posted on 12/26/2007 8:43:59 AM PST by devane617

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To: logic

You might want to read this.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?u=%2Fnetahtml%2Fsrchnum.htm&Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&r=1&l=50&f=G&d=PALL&s1=6101918.PN.&OS=PN/6101918&RS=PN/6101918

It is noting like the HellFire device.

The key is the biased position of the trigger. Not allowing the trigger to move from a set position.

He used an SKS and MAC-90 in the above.

If you have an SKS you can do something similar. Squeeze the trigger lightly and slowly. Every once in a while you can get it to fire two or three rounds as his device does. That’s when the trigger is in his bias position. When you do it the recoil will quickly engage the sear so you can only get a couple of shots.


81 posted on 12/26/2007 12:25:01 PM PST by PeteB570 (Guns, what real men want for Christmas)
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To: PeteB570

Well, I know recoil was a bad term to use in the cycle of operation, but the recoil of the weapon will move your finger and the trigger stopping the repetitive firing of the weapon.


82 posted on 12/26/2007 12:34:15 PM PST by PeteB570 (Guns, what real men want for Christmas)
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To: Clint Williams

Yeah, I know. It was a rhetorical question, much to our shame.


83 posted on 12/26/2007 12:54:58 PM PST by LouAvul
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To: devane617
This whole venture collapsed because an Atkins owner just had to ask the ATF Tech Branch for clarification on the device.

The ATF Tech Branch has a group of people who follow the letter of the law and another group that believes that they're working for the government to help prohibit firearms. If you work with the NFA Tech Branch, you never know which one you're going to get. They assign caseloads based upon the requesting citizen's surname initial. You can have a last name beginning in WXYZ and never have a problem, or you can be EFGH and have an examiner assigned to you that practically works for the Brady Campaign. The honest clerks will stamp you through, while others may return your Form 1s and Form 4s for punctuation mistakes when they get around to it some months later.

Ask them once about the legality of an issue, maybe you'll get an answer that may be in your favor. Ask them a second time and you're going to get someone else who will reverse any previous findings. The BATFE has zero problem with some of their examiners making up law as they go along. Even if you get a finding in your favor, it's worth less than the paper it's printed on. One simple stupid question can affect thousands of other Americans.

It's always a good idea never to ask ATF questions about anything if they've already ruled positively.

That said, the ATF Tech Branch is run a thousand times better than it used to be before they moved to West Virginia. Before the move, it almost used to be as bad as being a schoolboy asking the most neurotic mother in your neighborhood for permission to climb the apple tree out in her front yard.

84 posted on 12/26/2007 12:58:28 PM PST by The KG9 Kid
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To: DaveLoneRanger
DaveLoneRanger said: "I think there are rational limits to the needs of citizens to be well-armed. "

Perhaps you should seek a Constitutional amendment to permit applying a "rational need" basis to the right to keep and bear arms.

I won't support it, of course, because anybody's assessment of my need is irrelevant to the exercise of my rights.

Why was that poor woman who protected her congregation armed only with a handgun? Don't you think she would have been better off with an M-16? What exactly was her need?

85 posted on 12/26/2007 1:04:26 PM PST by William Tell (RKBA for California (rkba.members.sonic.net) - Volunteer by contacting Dave at rkba@sonic.net)
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To: devane617
Akins threads can be found under keyword "akins" for those unacquainted with the story.

It must be spelled a-k-i-n-s.

Best regards,

86 posted on 12/26/2007 1:14:02 PM PST by Copernicus (Mary Carpenter Speaks About Gun Control http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=7CCB40F421ED4819)
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To: PeteB570
I read this http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6101918.pdf which is also his patent. I'm not sure how the hellfire works. The accelerating assembly modifies the stock of the firearm only in that it is able to allow the rest of the firearm (except the stock) to slide back and forth inside the stock about 1 inch, but it is under spring pressure to remain forward. when one uses the device, the press the trigger to cause the firearm to fire and the action to cycle and recoil forces the firearm (except the stock) backwards in the stock far enough to remove the trigger from the finger which is not moving (due to a "stop"), causing the trigger to now be restored to it's un-depressed position relative to the rest of the firearm (except the stock). then the spring pressure forces the firearm (except the stock) back to the forward position causing the trigger to become depressed again since the trigger finger has still not moved and the cycle repeats.

So basically the trigger moves while the finger stays put, not the finger moves while the trigger stays put...although it's all relative. :)

87 posted on 12/26/2007 1:16:37 PM PST by logic (Support Duncan Hunter for the 2008 GOP presidential nominee. He is THE conservative candidate!!)
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To: Copernicus

Right. Akins. Most people think of the diet doctor, like I just did.


88 posted on 12/26/2007 1:22:04 PM PST by The KG9 Kid
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Comment #89 Removed by Moderator

To: DaveLoneRanger

Why don’t you just say ‘Nuclear doomsday device that can destroy the whole Solar System’ and be done with it?


90 posted on 12/26/2007 1:28:17 PM PST by The KG9 Kid
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To: RandallFlagg

If so, then why doesn’t someone pounce on it? Why doesn’t the NRA pounce on it? They have funds for these kinds of things don’t they?


91 posted on 12/26/2007 1:40:16 PM PST by mamelukesabre
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To: DaveLoneRanger

THat’s not an answer to the question.

I’ll tell you what the most logical, most common sense answer to the “how far do we go with this” stupid comment you posted is.

Whatever the plain ordinary army infantry soldier is equipped with is what should be the upper limit to civilian arms ownership.

That means M16s with three round burst.

Anything less than that is a mockery of the second ammendment.


92 posted on 12/26/2007 1:49:43 PM PST by mamelukesabre
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To: devane617

If you have ever “bump fired” a gun, you know how the accelerator works.

If you haven’t bump-fired a gun...

you really should...

http://www.powercustom.com/AKPages/BumpFiring.htm


93 posted on 12/26/2007 2:11:35 PM PST by Fido969 ("The hardest thing in the world to understand is income tax." - Albert Einstein)
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To: devane617
The Accelerators, made of injection molded plastic, sold for about $1,000 apiece

And not one customer sued the ATF for $1,000 reimbursement plus spring removal expenses in small claims court? After all the product was LEGAL when they bought it.

94 posted on 12/26/2007 2:19:42 PM PST by montag813
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To: rightwingextremist1776
Do not let the ATF find you drawings of the M-16 lower receiver. Ownership constitutes a felony.
95 posted on 12/26/2007 2:24:47 PM PST by mad_as_he$$ ("Has there been a code nine? Have you heard from the Doctor?")
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To: devane617
Most of the Accelerators were made for a Ruger 10/22

A 10/22? Sheesh, you're hardly ready to take on The Man with a .22 rifle, even an auto one.

96 posted on 12/26/2007 2:38:35 PM PST by montag813
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To: devane617

Does this mean that the rubber-band bump fire technique is illegal???


97 posted on 12/26/2007 5:32:19 PM PST by Thunder90
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To: mamelukesabre
Why doesn’t the NRA pounce on it? They have funds for these kinds of things don’t they?

The NRA's job is to keep the NRA in business. That means keeping every gun owner in a state of constant worry about their right to keep and bear while doing the absolute bare minimum possible to show they are "doing something".

You don't get people to keep sending you money if there's no threat to point to. And you don't keep the threat in place as a money maker by actually fighting against it.
98 posted on 12/26/2007 5:41:00 PM PST by Dr.Zoidberg (Mohammedanism - Bringing you only the best of the 6th century for fourteen hundred years.)
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Comment #99 Removed by Moderator

To: DaveLoneRanger
I think there are rational limits to the needs of citizens to be well-armed.

Fortunately, we live in the 21st Century where the adage" when weapons are outlawed, only outlaws will have weapons" is clearly demonstrated in the person of unelected, non-government civilian Osama Bin Laden who seeks and eventually may succeed in acquiring, possessing, transporting and deploying a (or several) nuclear warhead(s).

Whether that meets your test of rational need is not relevant since it is an absolute reality.

The same reality could be applied to H.Ross Perot, George Soros, Bill Gates or any number of other unelected, non-government civilians should they elect to earmark the resources for the project.

All the bluster from all the governments in the world will not alter this reality one iota.

So to make ordinary unelected, non-government civilians into criminals for their desire to acquire, possess, transport and if necessary deploy F-15 fighter jets or howitzers or shoulder fired surface to air missiles or anti-aircraft guns et.al seems misguided at best.

Best regards,

100 posted on 12/26/2007 6:02:25 PM PST by Copernicus (Mary Carpenter Speaks About Gun Control http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=7CCB40F421ED4819)
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