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To: doc1019; bagadonutz
The world didn’t need the catholic church to preserve the bible. How arrogant. God would have preserved His Word with or without the Popes church.

On the contrary, the Bible as a whole was not compiled until the late 4th century and then it was compiled by a Catholic saint (St. Jerome) at the request of a Catholic pope (St. Damasus I).

Christ stated that the Church, not Scripture should be the final authority:  "And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the Church: but if he neglect to hear the Church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican." (Matthew 18:17 )  Christ did not state to refer to or consult Scripture for disputes and correction.  He said to go to the Church as It is the final authority in Christianity. 

In addition, St. Paul states that the Church, not Scripture is "THE pillar and ground of the truth." (1 Timothy 3:15)  Since the Church alone is mentioned as the pillar of truth, then It alone has the right to discern the truth and interpret Scripture.  For if individuals could correctly interpret Scripture, then all interpretations would be exactly the same as there can only be one Spiritual Truth for the plural of the word "truth" never appears in Scripture.  The Church is Christ's bride (Ephesians 5:29) and has "no spot, wrinkle or blemish" (Ephesians 5:27).  Christ also stated that the gates of Hell will not prevail against His Church (Matthew 16:18).

117 posted on 12/23/2007 5:56:35 AM PST by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
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To: NYer
Christ stated that the Church, not Scripture should be the final authority: "And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the Church: but if he neglect to hear the Church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican." (Matthew 18:17 )

And where did the church get it's information??? From the scriptures, of course...

1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Christ did not state to refer to or consult Scripture for disputes and correction. He said to go to the Church as It is the final authority in Christianity.

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Gee Whiz...Scripture means nothing to you people...You can read it with your own two eyes and then just go on and ignore what it says...That's quite a religion you got...

In addition, St. Paul states that the Church, not Scripture is "THE pillar and ground of the truth." (1 Timothy 3:15)

That's not what Paul said...Paul said that God was the pillar and ground of the truth...And you can compare that with any number of scriptures...

Besides, if what your church taught you was correct, how do you explain why Paul would have to write (scripture) to the church to correct it (with scripture)???

1Ti 3:14 These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly:

1Ti 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Paul had to write scripture to the church since he couldn't be there in person to instruct the church...

The church is not the pillar and ground of the truth, God's scripture and God are...

155 posted on 12/23/2007 9:41:28 AM PST by Iscool
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