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To: BlackElk
I am going to close tonight's festivities by pointing out that, if Robert E. Lee did not think that a state (or in his case a commonwealth) COULD secede, he had a strange way of showing it when he told an agent of Lincoln that his loyalty must be to Virginia, when he agreed to accept command of the Army of Northern Virginia and when he refused a high command in the Union Army. If you meant to say that Lee would have preferred that Virginia not secede, that would not be the same thing. Stonewall Jackson actively campaigned within Virginia against secession but gave his loyalty to Lee and Virginia when Virginia seceded.

His loyalty was to the State of Virginia, but in his letter to his son he made it very clear that he didn't think secession was legitimate.

Look it up.

Jackson certainly opposed secession. On his last night in the White House, he was knocking back Old #7 with his youngest protege Sam Houston as his house guest. (This story is from a history of Texas called Lone Star) Jackson told Houston that he (Jackson) would not live to see the day when hotheads would demand civil war over slavery. He enjoined Houston, in the event that Houston were still alive at such a time, to run for POTUS and, if elected, declare war on the entire world as necessary to avoid civil war. Jackson confidently predicted that the nation would rally around the flag. He warned that the wounds of a civil war would never heal even in a century. Interestingly, Lincoln's Secretary of State Seward (the best man by far in that administration) advised Lincoln likewise without any knowledge of what Jackson told Houston). Lincoln ignored the advice.

Yes, and Sam Houston also rejected secession and had Texas listened to him they would have been far better off

Paleos who favor the Union's lawless invasion of the Confederacy and its horrendous gore limited to American victims only are in a poor position to pose for peacecreep holy pictures when they seem to favor only those wars which kill only Americans.

Actually it is you who are holding to the 'Paelo' position in regards to the Civil War, since they are usually anti-Lincoln and hold the view that the states did have a right to secede.

So, how does it feel to be a Paleo?

The plain terms of the Tenth Amendment restrain the federal government only and deny to it any non-enumerated powers, leaving those to the states and the people respectively. Unless the constitution itself empowers the federales, they have no power to act. There is no enumerated federal power to force unwilling states to remain under the knout of the "Union."

The Federal government has the power to enforce its laws, which the states were in violation of.

The property that the Southern states were taking was not theirs to take, it was Federal property, which means it was paid for by all of the states.

Finally, firing on the flag (which you claim to love) is an act of war and rebellion.

BTW, considering the source and your overall eccentric views, your insults are received as compliments. Keep 'em rolling.

Considering the content of your posts, that will not be difficult.

The Federalists called the Hartford Convention because they were already finished as a political force (by 1815, the Federalists were as much of a laughing stock in executive and legislative branches as is paleoPaulie now), having only Chief Justice John Marshall as the dead hand of the past on SCOTUS to try to thwart the popular will. Hamilton was already dispatched by then as well. David McCullough, in his brilliant biography of John Adams, seems to suggest that Hamilton's radical authoritarianism as expressed in the hysteria of the Alien and Sedition Acts not only defeated Adams but also destroyed the Federalists.

The Federalists ceased to be a viable party after they brought up secession.

It never recovered from that blunder.

The Alien-Sedition acts were another issue that cost them.

Where, in the constitution, are the federales authorized to impose "reconstruction" as a consequence of their victory in a war they launched and fought illegally. Cite constitutional article and section not what you think someone may have thought.

The Southern representives were allowed to return as long as those who did so were not actively engaged in the Rebellion, and pledged allegiance to the United States.

The Southern states had to end slavery as well.

A reasonable requirement considering the damage done to the nation to defend the cause of slavery.

All of this was upheld as Constitutional by the Supreme Court.

932 posted on 12/20/2007 10:26:06 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (Neocons-the intellectual blood brothers of the Left-Yaron Brook)
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To: fortheDeclaration
It is a curious position for a paleowhatever to use SCOTUS as a source of "constitutional" wisdom. The usurpations of John Marshall, Roe vs. Wade, Lawrence vs. Texas (seeing homosexual activity as a "constitutional" right) ad nauseam. So, some letter of Lee overcomes his distinguished lifetime to the contrary??? Don't think so. It is the Commonwealth of Virginia, BTW. His oath at West Point was loyalty to Virginia. The oath of cadets after the invasion of South Carolina was changed to an oath to "the" United States.

Common sense and a capacity for reading the actual terms of the constitution are not the definition of "paleo" or you obviously would not be one.

Robert Anderson of Indiana, "Union" Commander at Fort Sumter obeyed until surrendering the fort to South Carolina, the Confederacy and P.G.T. Beauregard and then resigned from the service, a very effective editorial as to his views without subjecting himself further to the tyranny of Lincoln.

BTW, the paleosquishball and his eccentric army have less than two weeks before the serious humiliation of them and their efforts begins.

984 posted on 12/21/2007 1:09:49 PM PST by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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