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To: DelphiUser
Interesting, since the word Trinity never appears in the Bible,

And? Does the Bible say that any term not explicitly mentioned in Scripture is false? If that were true, one would have to abandon Mormonism and Luther's doctrine of "the Bible alone," among countless other beliefs, both true and false.

and was not created until AD 325.

The dogma was formally defined by the Church (to which Christ told us to take our disagreements) at the Council of Nicea, but the notion is evident in Scripture, particularly Jesus' command to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit (II. Proof of Doctrine from Scripture).

Interestingly enough, it wasn't until around the year 400 that the Church, which Scripture calls "the pillar and foundation of truth, determined the canon of Scripture. Until then there was no definitive collection of Scriptures, although a consensus had begun to solidify by that time.

It's also worth noting that it wasn't until the year 1500 that the non-Biblical doctrine of "the Bible alone" was proposed.

170 posted on 12/17/2007 10:42:44 AM PST by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: Aquinasfan

The dogma was formally defined by the Church.

And then came the Quadrinity. Father, Mother, Son, Holy Spirit sometime during the chivalric age. (1200’s AD)


172 posted on 12/17/2007 10:48:09 AM PST by Soliton (Freddie T is the one for me! (c))
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To: Aquinasfan
It's also worth noting that it wasn't until the year 1500 that the non-Biblical doctrine of "the Bible alone" was proposed.

It's also worth noting that prior to this time the theory of "the Bible alone" COULD NOT HAVE WORKED. Prior to the invention of the printing press, all Bibles were inscribed by hand, this was a time-consuming process and the number of qualified scribes was limited. Additionally, paper had not been fully developed, so they were written on parchment which was very expensive. The result was that the cost of a Bible was far beyond the means of all but the wealthiest people and even for the wealthy there was a very long wait to buy one. All of this was coupled with the fact that most men and almost all women were illiterate.

Now obviously, the invention of the printing press changed this and within a fairly short period of time most families did own Bibles. However, the perplexing question is this, why would the Lord give us a way of Salvation that He knew would be impossible for fifteen centuries?

177 posted on 12/17/2007 11:07:48 AM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Aquinasfan
And? Does the Bible say that any term not explicitly mentioned in Scripture is false? If that were true, one would have to abandon Mormonism and Luther's doctrine of "the Bible alone," among countless other beliefs, both true and false.

No, it does not, but since the nature of God is central, to knowing him: John 17: 3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
You'd think he would mention it.

Also, the scripture: Gal. 1: 8-9
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Says that if the Gospel is changed from what was originally taught, it's bad. So how do we know what was originally taught?
  1. Records
  2. Prayer
Luckily, we have a way to find out if the records we are looking at are of God: 1 Jn. 4: 1
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
To me this is a Command to check out all religions, and pray about all, and see where I get an answer from God, and Follow his promptings, he even tells me how to know if I am being led astray. This is Good stuff, and I am Happy to say that after Putting Mormonism to the test, I know that It is true and that Jesus is my savior and came in the flesh, for the Spirit of God tells me so. Thus, I invite all to put Mormonism to "The Test" And thank you so much for asking.

Now, on to your link about the Trinity, Interesting, and yes I had seen this before, as for me all this eternal generation and eternal progression, and perpetual virginity stuff is just rubbish, none of it is in the Bible.

Sorry, but that's my opinion. In the Bible, John records jesus' own description of his oneness with the Father This is in Chapter seven of his book The Gospel of St John John 17:
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Now I hate the brevity which is forced upon us by this medium of communication, I have included a link tot he Chapter in questions, please click on it and read the whole chapter if you can, several times while meditating on the oneness of Jesus and God. Then pray about it.

My understanding is that the Disciples retained their personalities, and persons separate from that point on, and became "one" after the Day of pentacost and were of one heart might mind and strength.

Seeing me is like seeing my father, Seeing Jesus is like seeing his father for they look alike. Jesus and God are of one mind in that they think alike, so talking to one is like talking to the other. They are however separate persons, who make up a single Godhead.

Mormons believe that Jesus was also the first spirit created by God, and thus is the Firstborn among brother and sister spirits. Jesus was called by God the Father to be part of the Godhead, before Time or anything corporeal was created. There for Jesus is God from all eternity to all eternity, from the Beginning to the ending, the Alpha and Omega.

There are some here who are trying to say that since Jesus was created, or begotten by God he is lesser than God, this is not true.

Many relationships are confusing to people who do not understand them, God the Father is our Spiritual father, he is also Our God, he is also part of the Godhead which is also God, Jesus is Our Brother Spiritually, Our Father Physically as he and God the father Created Adam and gave him life. He is our savior in that he came here to earth, and personally Bore our sins and was crucified on the cross for us. He broke the bonds of Death and Hell by resurrecting his own BODY, thus absorbing the curse that came down from Adam. Because of Jesus, there is no stain of "original sin", for that is swallowed up in Christ and we are left free. Free to chose God and Salvation through Righteousness, or Satan and captivity through sin.

God has promised that those who act in a manner to be saved (having faith is an action to me) and are saved will inherit every thing that he hath. And if a son inherits his father's kingdom, is he not a king? the early Christians believed in the Diefication of man, now we are reviled for it, however, it too is biblical.

Consider if you can my position, I believe I am reading the Bible as it was meant to be read, and am being condemned by many who call my faith an abomination, many who claim to be enlightened are down right embarrassing to their peers when they call us names that if you put another title in the sentence (Black, Jew, Asian, Cripple, etc) they would be run out of town on a rail. but because they are talking about a person who professes to believe in Jesus, who is out of the mainstream so it is "OK". Imagine the shock they will be in for if I am right, and they are wrong.

Any logical and reasonable person will admit that there is a possibility that their perspective on reality might not be reality itself, so we could all be wrong. I ask all who will read this, what do you have to lose by reading a Free Book of Mormon, and PRaying about it? What do you have to lose by not checking it out?

To those who will now come out of the wood work (they always do) and tell you something "Vile" about Mormons, or that they read it for you, or some such, drivel.

It's simple, can you trust them? (no)
Can you trust me? (no)
Can you trust God? (Absolutely!)

I'd Go with God if I were you, can't decide if you want to ask for a book or not?

Ask God if it's a good idea.

If you are a parent, or have a parent (I HOPE that covers everybody) Wold you as a Good parent ever get mad when your child asks a honest heart felt question? God will never get mad at you for asking him for advice, and his advice is better than everyone els's put together.

IMHO, if there were more churches, there would be fewer psychiatrists.

This post is getting way to long. (You ask Good questions!)

Merry Christmas, and God bless.
227 posted on 12/17/2007 2:07:26 PM PST by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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