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To: chiller; Clint N. Suhks
The businesses who voluntarily choose to advertise there pay that bill.

No, the businesses are paying that tax. If those businesses were paying that same amount of money to a private concern, it would be a bill, a fee, a charge, a price -- anything BUT a tax. Get it????? By the way, when a government creates a monopoly for itself by outlawing competition, for good reasons or bad, then "choice" takes on an entirely different meaning and in any case, is irrelevant: the topic is TAX, and if it's being charged by and paid to the government, it is a TAX, choice aside. You can choose not to have a driver's license -- it doesn't alter the fact that the "fees" the DMV charges for the license are a form of taxation. Choice is irrelevant; the charger and recipient of the money is what matter in this discussion.

My guess is that you are and have always been employed by someone else, never actually run or operated your own business or been self-employed so that you had to set your own rates with regard to the marketplace. If you had or did, you'd understand that consumers are who foot the bill for what businesses pay in the way of fees or taxes. So yes, the consumers who patronize that business indirectly pay the business's bills AND taxes. Choice or not -- if the dollar amount is going to the government, it's a tax and it's still paid by individuals like you and me.

The bottom line that goes over your head: money charged by and for a government entity is a TAX, not matter how you slice it. Anyone can whitewash it by calling it a "fee," but becuase it is charged by the government to fund the government, it is a TAX. Romney has nothing to do with it except that this time, he happens to be the politician trying to pretend that government-created monopolies charge "fees," not taxes, and you're sucker enough to buy it. It's not about Romney, it's about suckers like you, dear.

Your only recourse is to attribute to "hate" Clint and my objection to Romney's penchant for whitewashing government taxation as "fees." Very weak thinking on your part.

642 posted on 12/17/2007 8:21:46 AM PST by Finny (There are many enemies in our work. One of them is envy. -- A British naval officer)
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To: Finny
Why waste your time with a moonbat who thinks The government owns the freeway ?

I've read the exact same on Democratic Underground many times.

"The government owns your money via the treasury."

"The government owns the national parks via the US Dept of the Interior."

This is liberal thinking and the beginning of tyranny. Why post to a future ZOT?

643 posted on 12/17/2007 8:34:42 AM PST by Clint N. Suhks (What do elves learn in school? The elf-a-bet. ©®™)
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To: Finny
We probably have a semantics disagreement here. I think of a tax as 1)fee charged by government for any number of things. Drivers license fees, sewer and water bills....none of which are commonly referred to as taxes, nor perhaps thought of as such. 2) a charge above and beyond the cost of a service, a surcharge if you will. Sales tax, etc.

If you think of every government fee as a tax, that's fine. I have no problem with that.

You mentioned a drivers license--while voluntary--is nearly universal, even by those New Yorkers and Chicagoans who don't own cars. I'd guess 99.9 % of Americans have a drivers license, but an an equal 99.9 percent probably do not pay the govt. for roadside adverts. There is a difference here. One is broadbased and affects nearly everyone. The second is very narrow and directly affects almost no one, and then only by choice. So when Mitt raised "taxes" on roadside advertisements he was not taking money from all the citizens of Mass. In fact, he saved all the citizens money. That's what he was explaining, and I understand the difference.

Self-employed, by the way, running my own business for 10 years, so I understand that taxes are part of the cost of doing business and are incorporated into the cost of the products we sell. Businesses, however, do pay taxes, as I just wrote checks for 10 grand yesterday to the US Treasury. Happy to do so, even if they're a bit steep.

663 posted on 12/17/2007 4:29:43 PM PST by chiller (Old Media is not yet dead. Turn them off and they will die.)
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