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To: spunkets
He needed a real psychiatrist, because the damage was significant.

It sounds like he needed a cult deprogrammer. Where do you find a good one? How much do they cost? How do you find one who won't destroy the core of your faith? Somehow he still knew that God was love, but didn't see that in those around him. He did see the hypocrisy in many of them. To a sensitive, vulnerable soul, it does sound like abuse even though some of it could be imaginary or not such a big deal to a healthier personality. He didn't know how to deal with rejection, and how do average people not reject people who frighten them? By the time you are in this kind of abnormal mental state, everybody rejects you. He was crying for help on that board. Too bad somebody who could intervene or do something didn't pick up on it.

Did you see that video of Rick he linked to? I couldn't watch it all. Outwardly he seemed so calm. Why didn't someone pick up on his cry for help, or was the video posted after he had killed the two women and himself? Some professional could have caught it. At least the ex pentecostals recognized his need for professional help, but they wouldn't know the best kind. I wouldn't either, wouldn't know how to find the right person.

There were so many clues and red flags. One guy knew it was Matthew, wonder if he tried to alert the authorities. Better not say any more because it gores some sacred oxes.

2,449 posted on 12/12/2007 6:19:22 AM PST by Aliska
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To: Aliska

I don’t mind goring sacred oxes when needed.

But this kids problems with flawed Christianity were

RELATIVELY minor

compared to his problems in his home. And, the problems in his home relative to impossible perfectionism—again—assuming even 10% of what he wrote to be true . . . set-up other Christians to always fail at being perfect Christians around him, too.

And, sadly, even in the best of orgs—which YWAM IS—there’s too often too high a degree of hypocrisy.

All of us are human and none of us measure up fully. But sometimes, it seems like the degree of hypocrisy that gets winked at is outrageous.

In some respects, if 10% of what he wrote is true . . . it’s a wonder he didn’t start with his mom.


2,450 posted on 12/12/2007 6:31:07 AM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Aliska; Quix
"Did you see that video of Rick he linked to? I couldn't watch it all. Outwardly he seemed so calm."

No. Is that about some one that stabbed Rick's former abuser then committed suicide?

"There were so many clues and red flags. One guy knew it was Matthew, wonder if he tried to alert the authorities.

I think that was the person from the youth group that remembered him from 2002. He only made the connection to Murray after the events occurred. He described some behavior which would naively indicate the onset of schizophrenia, but I haven't seen much that indicates it was severe if present. There's no indication of blunted emotions I've seen. His problems apparently went critical when he was ~17, and was put on drugs. I doubt very much that the "doc" that put him on those was competent. The owner of the xpentacostal board that called the FBI after one of his last posts.

As Quix noted, he had a schizoid personality. That means he was severely introverted. The isolation I'm sure compounded that, if not causing it out right. That type of personality does not indicate schizophrenia, but can precede it, or lead to it. I haven't looked at all the writings that were available, just scanned them as I tried to grab them, before they disappeared. It appears that he invented some friends, in particular, a girl whose experiences are probably his. That's called a schizoid fantasy, where the person invents their own friends, because they are incapable of doing so otherwise. The fantasy results from an attempt to hide the loneliness and their own inability to break it through their own efforts at social interaction. In addition to the girl, he went to at least one concert, and an imaginary party with these "friends".

"Somehow he still knew that God was love,"

He didn't know what love is and he didn't know who God was. At 17, he came to the conclusion that he wasn't "saved", which was also the time he notes, that he was given the drugs. At that point he definitely needed competent psychiatric help, not drugs, pastors praying over him, rummaging through his stuff, and a send off to Youth camp, a place where he was sure to be rejected and chastised. He had neither the mental skills to deal with himself, nor the social skills to interact with others. From there it just went down hill.

"By the time you are in this kind of abnormal mental state, everybody rejects you."

Not everyone, but considering the environment he was in and attempted to be in, the rejection was inevitable and the help offered would have been worthless, because they were unable and unwilling to recognize what they had in front of them. He was a "sinner" foremost, in addition to being an unrecognized cripple. Just being a good friend to such a personality type and teaching them how to deal with the world can reverse both prior damage and the introversion itself. It can result in significant personality change, capacity for productive social interaction, all through the establishment of a firm concept of self that's developed and reinforced through friendship.

2,513 posted on 12/12/2007 7:05:17 PM PST by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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