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To: Girlene; Quix
Who knows for sure. But I still don't place any blame on his religious upbringing.

Children brought up in a religious household can have trouble - especially the younger they are and the more immature they are - comprehending two very different messages: On the one hand, they are told of God's gift of grace (as opposed to works). But then there's the other message that any parent, religious or not, has to impart to their children - and that's a message comprised almost entirely of "works". Eg, you have to do your homework or you can't use the internet. You have to do your chores if you want to get paid. And so on and on. Even at school, it's works-based - ie do the work or you don't get the A.

Basically, you have to use the carrot and stick with them (works), while simultaneously telling them you love them no matter what they do (grace). But the younger the child, the harder it is to understand this dual, seemingly conflicting message. They see things on a simpler level, where discipline looks to them to be the opposite of love. "If you really loved me, you wouldn't ground me!"

They don't feel like they're loved while being disciplined. And I think that can spill over, especially the younger they are, to their view of God. The message of "100% grace, 0% works" can get contaminated by the fact that their day to day relationship with their parents is "50% works, 50% grace" (or some other ratio, depending on the parents). And so, as seen in Murray's writings about laying awake at night worrying about his salvation, they don't or they can't believe the message of God's grace, and instead are certain that works just MUST be part of the requirement, and that they are failing to measure up.

2,189 posted on 12/11/2007 11:49:00 AM PST by CardCarryingMember.VastRightWC
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To: CardCarryingMember.VastRightWC
"But I still don't place any blame on his religious upbringing."

The religious upbringing you describe may not be the religious upbringing he experienced. In fact, I doubt very much that it was anywhere close to it.

2,191 posted on 12/11/2007 11:57:25 AM PST by yorkie ( For God so loved the world........................ that He didn't send a committee.)
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To: CardCarryingMember.VastRightWC
But I still don't place any blame on his religious upbringing.

If my post came across as placing the blame for his "actions" on his religious upbringing, then I worded it poorly. I merely pointed out his own words about his overwhelming fear of hell, even as a young child, as some of the background of his issues (especially in this instance where he specifically targetted Christians). He chose to take his anger, hatred, evil, whatever you call it to a level, most of us will never be able to understand. For the other young male shooters that have been out taking their rage out on innocent bystanders and killing them, their "issues" are different. So maybe my "two cents" about his religious upbringing is not very useful.

Your description of a child being raised with a religious upbringing (as you defined it), sounds pretty normal and healthy to me.
2,192 posted on 12/11/2007 12:31:11 PM PST by Girlene (Merry Christmas)
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To: CardCarryingMember.VastRightWC

You make excellent points, imho.

Scripture talks in the OT about the father training the child in the way that child should go . . . along the way . . . as in beside the father in the father’s work-day.

We sure have gotten away from that.

But the object lessons in daily life are so rarely illustrated, commentary-ed on etc. by Dads to their children.

There’s even opportunities in movies and TV shows that folks ignore.

If a balanced Christian world view is not ‘infected’ into the children at an early age and all along the way . . . parents WILL answer to God as well as the pain of watching the consequences of their schlockiness lived out in the pains of their children.

And certainly none do it perfectly. But that’s where God’s Grace comes in. Earnest balanced Biblical effort is enough. God DOES fill-in the gaps.


2,194 posted on 12/11/2007 12:35:08 PM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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