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To: MNJohnnie
Truth is John over the years you have done an excellent job in tutoring many of us here(including myself) about the fact that we will not get 100% of what we want with any politico.

. I understand this and really don't expect it.

But when you have a blatant issue of both sides ignoring federal law, terror types, druggies and the rest coming across the border and all the other things associated with illegal immigration,I think the compromises made need to be small and the basic need secure the border needs to be overriding.

495 posted on 12/09/2007 2:04:21 PM PST by rodguy911 (Support The New media, Ticket the Drive-bys, --America-The land of the Free because of the Brave-)
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To: rodguy911; MNJohnnie; kabar

re: the getting 100% argument

The flaw in his arguments lies in the fallacy of assuming that all factors or variables of an issue or matter of concern are equally important. In scientific terminology we would say that all factors are “weighted equally”.

This is simply untrue. Some factors, some “points of consideration” are simply more important than others. Those factors I have referred to in this thread as first principles are so important that they trump nearly all others.

For example, if a political party and candidate promised you everything you wanted, on every issue you could think of, with the single exception that in order to do it, you’d have to give up your freedom of speech, or perhaps your freedom of religion, would you go for it?

Similarly, regarding what to do about illegal aliens, we have all participated in discussions about their relative economic benefits and importance to the nation. These ARE valid and important points to consider, but they are SECONDARY to the issue of WHO, exactly, the United States of America belongs to.

There are only two possible answers:

1. Either this country belongs to its citizens, to the “We the People” of our founding documents, and the decisions about its policies, direction and destiny are to be the expression of their will, through the rule of law... or...

2. It belongs to those who are not US citizens, wherever they may originate, and their wishes and desires shall determine its policies and decisions, e.g. over who may enter and under what criteria, REGARDLESS of what its citizens want....

If the choice is two, then the United States of America is no longer a sovereign nation, it’s merely someone’s administrative unit. Likewise, its people are no longer free citizens, they are merely a manageable labor force. They are subjects.

These are stark choices we face, and until they are decided those other important points of consideration are secondary. Despite their protestations to the contrary, those who insist on the primacy of some of those other points, e.g. that the economic benefits of illegals trumps all other considerations, have already chosen number 2.

This logic applies to other points of consideration, such as the LOST, the UN, the Kyoto treaty, global warming gay marriage, abortion or flag burning amendments, to mention just a few.

These are ALL “important” issues, but they are not all equally important. Some of them represent immediate existential threats to the sovereignty of the United Sates, and thus to the unalienable rights and freedom of its citizens - others do not. Differences and distinctions are important, and discernment of what is what and which is which on the part of the people is absolutely vital.

There is much more which could be said about these matters, but the line in the sand which I have drawn for myself, as has kabar, is that I will no longer tolerate, enable and acquiesce in the bait and switch deceptions of those who attempt to distract us from focusing on the existential first principles necessary for the survival of the Republic, and seek to defuse and dissipate our energies on secondary matters which should properly be dealt with only after those first principles are secured.


507 posted on 12/09/2007 3:33:24 PM PST by tarheelswamprat
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