Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: chiller; rodguy911; kabar
Kabar has had my respect also, but the desire to sit out the Pres. vote (which he threatens to do) must be discouraged, strongly...for all the reasons mentioned earlier. I hope and think you agree.

Your characterization of Kabar's position is incorrect. He does not "desire" to sit out the Presidential vote. He has simply analyzed the situation and quite logically and correctly made a personal decision to no longer enable a corrupt political establishment to triangulate his vote by limiting his options to false choices.

The struggle in which we are engaged to preserve our rights, our freedom and our nation's sovereignty is being waged on more levels than simply votes and elections. Equally, if not more important, is the battle of ideas and principles, e.g. citizens' rights, national sovereignty, sanctity of property and the rule of law. Elections are simply one means of fighting this battle; they are not the only means.

kabar has correctly reasoned it out that "winning" an election between candidates whose positions are relatively indistinguishable from each other and similarly hostile to the principles we claim we wish to defend is merely contributing to our inevitable demise.

Worse than that, however, if the candidates, our ostensible "choices" are practically indistinguishable except for "party affiliation", then the case for ideas, the public argument and debate for those fundamental principles we all claim to champion never gets made. As I said, we are lulled into thinking we have a choice, but it's a false choice, or more precisely, an irrelevant, inconsequential one. Such a scenario, which is exactly what we are facing, makes it entirely possible to win elections and still lose the war, and ultimately our nation.

In practical terms, e.g., if either Hillary or Rudy wins, we get an authoritarian statist as President. Neither of them has any real devotion or committment to the rights and freedom of the American people. The difference is, however, that because of the adversarial partisan structure of our government, a Guiliani Presidency will accelerate the loss of our freedoms even more quickly than will a Hillary administration. With President Hillary, constituent pressure and the exigencies of securing their re-election will impel Republicans lawmakers to at least make a show of opposition. Under a President Guiliani the Repubs would have the MSM sanction and cover of "bipartisanship" to join their Democrat colleagues in looting and dismembering the Republic.

It seems most people have succumbed to the cults of partisanship and personality in choosing our nation's leaders, while ignoring the inexorable erosion and abandonment of our first principles. Our only chance to turn this around lies in standing firm for those ideas and principles, to fight the battle of ideas regardless of what partisan pressures are brought to bear.

Losing an election might indeed be a disaster, but if the differences and principles embodied in the issues and contending factions are clearly articulated, then people will have the chance and hope of correctly interpreting and understanding the consequences of their choices. If those principles and differences are muddled and indistinguishable except for association with a letter of the alphabet, the people will have nothing tangible to grasp and evaluate, and will be unable to escape their cognitive trap.

It may not be enough - the hour is late. But refusal to make the effort guarantees defeat. It is sadly ironic that so many Freepers who clearly understand the necessity for us to fight the Long War against our external enemies cannot grasp that our domestic enemies are part of that same Long War.

kabar is correct. The current game is rigged, the voters are simply spectators, and the only ones who truly benefit are those who own the arena and pocket the gate receipts. If the American people fail to wake-up and drastically change the game next year it will probably be too late to turn it around.

475 posted on 12/09/2007 12:21:28 PM PST by tarheelswamprat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 452 | View Replies ]


To: tarheelswamprat

A very articulate, reasoned response. Well done.


482 posted on 12/09/2007 12:57:00 PM PST by kabar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 475 | View Replies ]

To: tarheelswamprat; chiller; rodguy911; kabar
So rather then getting 60-70% of what you want, getting 100% of what you claim to loath imposed on you is better?

NO ONE gets 100% of what they want out of politics. So what are you 100%er Purists willing to give up to get some good SC Justices? Some serious tax reform? A serious energy policy? Someone who will do something about the border? Movement on Soc Security reform etc etc etc?

What I am hearing around here is you people think everything should be done to accommodate your personal political whimsies while you should have to give up nothing at all that you want done in exchange.

Sorry politics require the ability to build wining coalitions. Listening to some people on this thread it is obvious you have no desire to ever actually win anything. You merely want to have something to bitch about. The 2nd any candidate actually addresses your concerns, you manufacture the new thing to bitch endlessly about.

Not even Ronald Mangus Reagan would of been able to delivered to you 100%ers what you are screaming for. That is why no one in politics takes you screamers seriously. All you ever do is bitch about what ever they do, why should they try to please any of you when you give every impression of being completely unappeasable?

485 posted on 12/09/2007 1:05:18 PM PST by MNJohnnie (Hillary Clinton has never done one thing right. She thinks that qualifies her to be President?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 475 | View Replies ]

To: tarheelswamprat
I may be the most naive of all Freepers, but I have a hard time equating Rudy with Hillary. First off I should state that Rudy is a "down the line pick" for me.

I like Fred, Mitt as first choices. Absent either one, I will support Rudy and in my mind he is nothing like her.

My hope is that people are not static.I suggest that we all evolve.I think it's possible for Rudy to manage NYC one way and the US govt. completely differently.

Hopefully events like 911 have improved the Rudy's of the world(at least some of them) into believing that US security is of major import and that is in the interest of the US to secure borders, quell illegal immigration and do the right things in so many areas of governance.

All that may make me just another naive voter, but absent my two top picks Rudy may be what I am stuck with.

490 posted on 12/09/2007 1:31:56 PM PST by rodguy911 (Support The New media, Ticket the Drive-bys, --America-The land of the Free because of the Brave-)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 475 | View Replies ]

To: tarheelswamprat
The difference is, however, that because of the adversarial partisan structure of our government, a Guiliani Presidency will accelerate the loss of our freedoms even more quickly than will a Hillary administration.

This is an attitude I'd adopt after all is lost. Hoping that it won't be as bad as we know it will be.

Our only chance to turn this around lies in standing firm for those ideas and principles, to fight the battle of ideas regardless of what partisan pressures are brought to bear.

That's what the primaries are for...to determine which principals (candidates) carry the day for us. The all or nothing stance works in the primaries, but we'd damn well better drop our differences for the general election. We (you) can fight to change them in the next go around IF you have enough support.

494 posted on 12/09/2007 1:43:47 PM PST by chiller (Old Media is not yet dead. Turn them off and they will die.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 475 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson