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To: DelphiUser
You wrote: Please be aware that anyone who quotes from the Tanners is quoting from someone who has sworn to destroy our church.

I try to post only accurate information about your church. While it is true the Tanners are Christians (and ex-LDS), I have found everything I used from their website to be abundantly annotated with quotations from both Mormon Scripture and Mormon Prophets.

However, in the interest of fairness, I will be glad to retract any erroneous information I cited. Will you please tell me where my sources are mistaken so I might take the appropriate action?

You wrote: Please pray about all you will be asked to read here, and follow the spirit.

Personally, I don't think that is wise in light of the following:

Most cults (notably Jehovah's Witnesses, Moonies, Christian Scientists and Hare Krishna's) tell followers and prospective adherents alike to ignore evidence, seek counsel regarding the truthfulness of their claims through prayer, and then rely on "feelings." Each cult has many sincere followers who testify that their belief is true because they prayed and felt it was right. I know you agree that each of these faiths is wrong … the inescapable conclusion is that their method does not work.

I think I know the reason. If I pray rather than seeking evidence, how can I be sure that it isn't the devil answering me? I remember reading somewhere that in Mormon temple ceremony, Adam prays to his heavenly father and three times he says, Oh God, hear the words of my mouth. It is also my understanding (and as a temple Mormon you can confirm this) that it is none other than Lucifer who answers his prayer. Doesn't your own temple ceremony make it clear the devil is capable of answering prayer?

I think this is why the Mormon Church invites prospective members such as myself to undertake a critical examination. Specifically:

In May of 1873, Brigham Young said, I say to the whole world, receive the truth, no matter who presents it to you. Take up the Bible, compare the religion of the Latter-day Saints with it, and see if it will stand the test … I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by Him … let every man and woman know themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates or not. This has been my exhortation continually. (From the Journal of Discourses, 16:46, as cited by Harold B. Lee, Conference Report, October 1950, pp. 129-130).

President Hugh B. Brown, a member of the LDS First Presidency in recent years, told an audience at Brigham Young University, We are not so much concerned whether your thoughts are orthodox or heterodox as we are that you shall have thoughts … while all members should respect, support, and heed the teaching of the Authorities of the Church, no one should accept a statement and base his testimony upon it, no matter who makes it, until he has, under mature examination found it to be true and worthwhile; then his logical deductions may be confirmed by the spirit of revelation to his spirit because real conversion must come from within. (Dialogue, Summer 1984, p. 15).

I think the ability of Satan to answer prayer is one reason Christians are taught not to rely on prayer and feelings as a replacement for valid evidence. This is not to suggest that we should not be in prayer during a testing process. But prayer should not be the test. Instead, we are told to pray for guidance as to what to look for and where to look concerning what is being said.
133 posted on 12/09/2007 11:50:58 AM PST by Zakeet (Be thankful we don't get all the government we pay for)
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To: Zakeet
I try to post only accurate information about your church. While it is true the Tanners are Christians (and ex-LDS), I have found everything I used from their web site to be abundantly annotated with quotations from both Mormon Scripture and Mormon Prophets.

I appreciate your attempt to present an accurate picture, please understand you will be as accurate as I would be should I attempt to explain your religion (whatever it is) without actually believing it. Please understand you cannot accurately teach that which you your self do not believe.

I regret that I cannot spend the time tonight to refute the entire web site, but here is a refutation that has already been done of the tanners.
A RESPONSE TO MORMONISM--SHADOW OR REALITY? Personally, I don't think that is wise in light of the following:

I understand why you would tell people to be wary of Asking God about our church, Since millions of Momrons have all received a direct response from God through the holy ghost.

I recommend that any who wonder read the section of my web page here titled Put our religion to "The Test"

Your logical, earthly reasoning is just that, ask God what is his, and he will answer.

I think I know the reason. If I pray rather than seeking evidence, how can I be sure that it isn't the devil answering me?

Science is the history of proving that we were wrong, evidence can and often is subject to interpolation, direct revelation from God is not.

I remember reading somewhere that in Mormon temple ceremony, Adam prays to his heavenly father and three times he says, Oh God, hear the words of my mouth. It is also my understanding (and as a temple Mormon you can confirm this) that it is none other than Lucifer who answers his prayer. Doesn't your own temple ceremony make it clear the devil is capable of answering prayer?

Actually, you have things a bit mixed up, but that is common, I will not correct you, but I will state that Satan does not answer Adams prayer, he visits Adam while he is praying, Satan cannot even hear a prayer to go, CS Lewis taught me that one and it is true.

I think this is why the Mormon Church invites prospective members such as myself to undertake a critical examination. Specifically:

Interesting straw man argument, claim we teach something we do not, then claim that as motivation for teaching men to ask God. Only God or messengers he sends can answer prayers to God, That is fundamental Mormon teaching. Please provide a scripture that teaches that Satan can answer a prayer to God.

<Snip>

I think the ability of Satan to answer prayer is one reason Christians are taught not to rely on prayer and feelings as a replacement for valid evidence.

I would like for someone, anyone to show me one scripture that says that when a prayer is said to God, Satan can answer instead of God.

There is no such scripture, we are instead commanded in the Bible to Ask him, to Try the spirits, The Bible says that if you Ask of God and it shall be Given.

Show me where if you ask God Satan answers instead. Not just Satan visiting someone, for even Jesus was tempted, but answering instead of God. I submit to you that if you believe that Satan will answer a prayer to God and God will not, then you believe Satan is God, for that is who you believe will answer your prayers to God. I believe that only God answers prayers to God.

This is not to suggest that we should not be in prayer during a testing process.

Why? If you do not believe God will answer your prayer, why pray?

But prayer should not be the test.

If God says it should be the test, will you try it?
First John 4:1-3
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
I testify to you and all who will read this that by the very spirit that testified to me of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon was I also taught that Jesus is the Christ my Lord, may Savior that he did live that he did die on the cross at Calvary, and he did it for me, and I need that sacrifice, daily, and for that, I am ashamed and will always be ashamed to have added to his pain.

Instead, we are told to pray for guidance as to what to look for and where to look concerning what is being said.

IMHO, You do not understand the Bible.
155 posted on 12/09/2007 6:21:01 PM PST by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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