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To: mvpel
Well, that makes more sense. There are many places around the world that I would agree we need to withdraw from either militarily (e.g., Korea, Germany, Japan) or financially (pretty much all of Africa). I don't agree that Muslims have been "radicalized" solely by our presence in their countries; they are radical by nature of their religious ideology and would hate us and our freedoms regardless. I don't know of any "tyrants or monarchs" that we are presently engaged in supporting (other than the ones in Muslim countries) though - perhaps you can enlighten me.

As for 2nd Amendment issues, I think we're in complete agreement, and the same goes for Rudy McRomney. I will not trust any candidate who is not willing to state unequivocally that firearms ownership is an individual (not a group) right, period. It's not enough to go up to Riley's and play around with the old Thompson gun on the wall for the cameras.

83 posted on 11/27/2007 7:57:37 AM PST by andy58-in-nh (Kill the terrorists, secure the borders, and give me back my freedom.)
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To: andy58-in-nh
I don't agree that Muslims have been "radicalized" solely by our presence in their countries; they are radical by nature of their religious ideology and would hate us and our freedoms regardless. I don't know of any "tyrants or monarchs" that we are presently engaged in supporting (other than the ones in Muslim countries) though - perhaps you can enlighten me.

While orthodox Islam is inherently violent and radical, not all Muslims are orthodox. Many Jews eat bacon and work on Saturdays; many Catholics use birth control; likewise, many Muslims eschew violence and are friendly to non-Muslims.

The US provided satellite intelligence data to Saddam so that his army could plan chemical weapons strikes against the Iranians more effectively. When something similar happened to us, we marshaled all the military might at our disposal and overthrew the government that supported and sheltered the people who did it.

We have sent $1.3 billion a year to Egypt's military and $815 million a year in economic aid, and yet five of the 9/11 hijackers were Egyptian. Egypt is one of the biggest recipients of US foreign aid, and the money allows Mubarak to stifle democratic reform of the government and silence or disappear his critics.

On Aug. 8, the Egyptian Organization for Human Rights reported that it had confirmed more than 500 cases of police abuse since 1993, including 167 deaths -- three of which took place this year -- that the group "strongly suspects were the result of torture and mistreatment."

We send hundreds of millions in military and economic support to the monarchy of Jordan every year, a nation where political parties were only legalized in 1992.

For a time, the killing at police hands of Mahmoud Khalifeh was one of the great non-events in modern Jordanian history. Khalifeh, "an outspoken critic of Jordan's rulers," was gunned down, and his brother Bashar critically wounded, in a dawn raid on 2 June 1995. The assault, in a wealthy suburb of Amman, "sent a chill through a population not used to seeing dissidents dying in a blaze of gunfire. But officials never publicly acknowledged anything happened, local media ignored it and a detachment of police stood at the building for more than a week after the shooting."

And of course, there's the monarchy of Saudi Arabia, font of the violence-preaching Wahabbi sect of Islam, which is spending our oil dollars on establishing mosques across the western world to spread the message of militant jihad.

Human rights violations in Saudi Arabia are widespread and cloaked in secrecy. Political and religious opponents routinely face arbitrary detention and brutal treatment. Over the past two decades, more than 1,000 people have been put to death or have suffered judicial corporal punishments such as amputation of limbs. Flogging is routine and torture has become institutionalized.

So really, is it any surprise that American slogans like "Operation Freedom" ring a bit hollow across the Middle East?

84 posted on 11/27/2007 9:05:42 AM PST by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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