A Mormon president? New film shows links between Smith, Romney

Deseret Morning News ^ | Nov. 24, 2007 | Carrie A. Moore

[MHGinTN]

Hijack? ... N00bie! When you’ve been around a year or two longer, you might begin to get the gist of what FR is and why our founder started the place. In the short term, reacquaint yourself with the title of the thread.

[FastCoyote]

[I know this may be hard for you to understand. But the word “atone” is a general word and could be replaced by the word “pay.” This is a quote about capital punishment, nothing more. So what is your point?
Deliver me from this stupidity!]

You know very well that isn’t what happened, as evidenced above. There are plenty of similar accounts, plus we are quoting Brigham Young directly.

[colorcountry]

[T]he founders of Utah incorporated in the laws of the Territory provisions for the capital punishment of those who wil[l]fully shed the blood of their fellow men. This law, which is now the law of the State, granted unto the condemned murderer the privilege of choosing for himself whether he die by hanging, or whether he be shot, and thus have his blood shed in harmony with the law of God; and thus atone, so far as it is in his power to atone, for the death of his victim. Almost without exception the condemned party chooses the latter death. This is by authority of the law of the land, not that of the Church.

Perhaps if you read it again you will see the distinction between death by hanging and whether he be shot and thus have his blood shed in harmony with the "law of God."

Name calling and personal attacks are specifically restricted on the religion forum. I don't mind really, if you name-call, it lets others see your true "spirit."

[colorcountry]

You are correct. We are not in the religion section, But Jim Rob and the Moderators who monitor this site will move it there when they deem it appropriate.

They run the site - - not you, even though you think you are superior due to your “priesthood,” you don’t run this show.

[broncobilly]

You take the time to accuse me of ignorance yet fail to actually have the guts to point our where the ignorant statement is.

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Ignorant statement: I pray for you. I pray that you will see the futility of “earning” your way to God through masonic Temple ordinances. I pray that you can break free of the cycle of paying 10% of your income, abstaining from food substances like coffee and tea, attending meetings etc, in order that you will be “worthy” to partake in the saving ordinances based upon Masonic rites, and passed on to the gullible.

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If you understood even the first thing about Mormonism, you would know that they do not believe one “earns” their way into God’s presence by temple ceremonies, dietary laws, attending meetings, etc. If you have spent a long time as a Mormon, you must have been sleep walking through it.

[MHGinTN]

"If you understood even the first thing about Mormonism, you would know that they do not believe one “earns” their way into God’s presence by temple ceremonies, dietary laws, attending meetings, etc." Um, billy, can one enter into exaltation of God's presence without MORMON baptism? Is Mormon baptism still a Temple ordinance?

[colorcountry]

Here is an excerpt of an address to the Utah State Legislature. The speech given by LDS President Brigham Young to the Joint Session of the Legislature in Salt Lake City, on Thursday, February 5, 1852. The following was found under Brigham Young addresses, Ms d 1234, Box 48, folder 3, dated Feb. 5, 1852, located in the LDS Church Historical Department, Salt Lake City, Utah. Spelling has been left intact. In the book, The Teachings of Brigham Young, compiled by Fred C. Collier, the same speech is reproduced with corrected spelling.

Read the whole sordid, disgusting thing in its entirety:
http://www.mrm.org/topics/documents-speeches/brigham-youngs-1852-speech-slavery

In the preisthood I will tell you what it will do. Where the children of God to mingle there seed with the seed of Cain it would not only bring the curse of being deprived of the power of the preisthood upon themselves but it would entail it upon their children after them, and they cannot get rid of it. If a man, in an ungaurded moment, should commit such a transgression, if he would walk up and say cut off my head, and kill man woman and child it would do a great deal towards atoneing for the sin. Would this be to curse them? No, it would be a blessing to them. It would do them good that they might be saved with their Bren. A man would shuder should they here us take about killing folk, but it is one of the greatest blessings to some to kill them, allthough the true principles of it are not understood.

[MEGoody]

If the right guy were running for Prez, I wouldn't care if he was a Mormon. . .I'd vote for him.

I won't be voting for Mitt in the primary. (I would vote for him in the general election if he gets the nomination.)

[colorcountry]

Why do you go to the Temple and perform “saving” ordinances, marraiges for the dead, endowments? What do they earn you?

Can you make it to the Celestial kingdom without these ordinances performed by or for you?

Who is ignorant? Who is lying?

[broncobilly]

I know very well the quote you gave was about capital punishment, nothing more. The fact that it was Brigham Yound is irrelevant.

[broncobilly]

Can you make it to the Celestial kingdom without these ordinances performed by or for you?
Who is ignorant? Who is lying?

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Mormons teach that baptism and accepting Christ as their Saviour is what is required, not the ceremonies you were referring to. Mormons believe that it is important to keep God’s commandments because they are God’s commandments. But Mormons believe we are saved by grace after all that we might do.

[Elsie]

... but LDS is the most consistent and thorough repository of Christian values in America.

 

 

Luke 18:9-14

 

   9.  To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable:
 10.  "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
 11.  The Pharisee stood up and prayed about  himself: `God, I thank you that I am not like other men--robbers, evildoers, adulterers--or even like this tax collector.
 12.  I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.'
 13.  "But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, `God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'
 14.  "I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

[Elsie]

When the stupidity and lies come fast and furious, rather than answer them one by one, it is probably better to let that body of post stand alone as a witness to the spirit that motivates these people.

Indeed!

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THE FIRST BOOK OF NEPHI
HIS REIGN AND MINISTRY

CHAPTER 14

 

An angel tells Nephi of the blessings and cursings to fall upon the Gentiles—There are only two churches: the Church of the Lamb of God and the church of the devil—The saints of God in all nations are persecuted by the great and abominable church—The apostle John shall write concerning the end of the world. Between 600 and 592 B.C. 

 

   1 And it shall come to pass, that if the Gentiles shall hearken unto the Lamb of God in that day that he shall manifest himself unto them in word, and also in power, in very deed, unto the taking away of their stumbling blocks—
  2 And harden not their hearts against the Lamb of God, they shall be numbered among the seed of thy father; yea, they shall be numbered among the house of Israel; and they shall be a blessed people upon the promised land forever; they shall be no more brought down into captivity; and the house of Israel shall no more be confounded.
  3 And that great pit, which hath been digged for them by that great and abominable church, which was founded by the devil and his children, that he might lead away the souls of men down to hell—yea, that great pit which hath been digged for the destruction of men shall be filled by those who digged it, unto their utter destruction, saith the Lamb of God; not the destruction of the soul, save it be the casting of it into that hell which hath no end.
  4 For behold, this is according to the captivity of the devil, and also according to the justice of God, upon all those who will work wickedness and abomination before him.
  5 And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me, Nephi, saying: Thou hast beheld that if the Gentiles repent it shall be well with them; and thou also knowest concerning the covenants of the Lord unto the house of Israel; and thou also hast heard that whoso repented not must perish.
  6 Therefore, woe be unto the Gentiles if it so be that they harden their hearts against the Lamb of God.
  7 For the time cometh, saith the Lamb of God, that I will work a great and a marvelous work among the children of men; a work which shall be everlasting, either on the one hand or on the other—either to the convincing of them unto peace and life eternal, or unto the deliverance of them to the hardness of their hearts and the blindness of their minds unto their being brought down into captivity, and also into destruction, both temporally and spiritually, according to the captivity of the devil, of which I have spoken.
  8 And it came to pass that when the angel had spoken these words, he said unto me: Rememberest thou the covenants of the Father unto the house of Israel? I said unto him, Yea.
  9 And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look, and behold that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations, whose founder is the devil.
  10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.
  11 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over ball the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people.
  12 And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were few, because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters; nevertheless, I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God, were also upon ball the face of the earth; and their dominions upon the face of the earth were small, because of the wickedness of the great whore whom I saw.
  13 And it came to pass that I beheld that the great mother of abominations did gather together multitudes upon the face of all the earth, among all the nations of the Gentiles, to fight against the Lamb of God.
  14 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the power of the Lamb of God, that it descended upon the saints of the church of the Lamb, and upon the covenant people of the Lord, who were scattered upon all the face of the earth; and they were armed with righteousness and with the power of God in great glory.
  15 And it came to pass that I beheld that the wrath of God was poured out upon that great and abominable church, insomuch that there were wars and rumors of wars among all the nations and kindreds of the earth.
  16 And as there began to be wars and rumors of wars among all the nations which belonged to the mother of abominations, the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold, the wrath of God is upon the mother of harlots; and behold, thou seest all these things—
  17 And when the day cometh that the wrath of God is poured out upon the mother of harlots, which is the great and abominable church of all the earth, whose founder is the devil, then, at that day, the work of the Father shall commence, in preparing the way for the fulfilling of his covenants, which he hath made to his people who are of the house of Israel.
  18 And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me, saying: Look!
  19 And I looked and beheld a man, and he was dressed in a white robe.
  20 And the angel said unto me: Behold one of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
  21 Behold, he shall see and write the remainder of these things; yea, and also many things which have been.
  22 And he shall also write concerning the end of the world.
  23 Wherefore, the things which he shall write are just and true; and behold they are written in the book which thou beheld proceeding out of the mouth of the Jew; and at the time they proceeded out of the mouth of the Jew, or, at the time the book proceeded out of the mouth of the Jew, the things which were written were plain and pure, and most precious and easy to the understanding of all men.
  24 And behold, the things which this apostle of the Lamb shall write are many things which thou hast seen; and behold, the remainder shalt thou see.
  25 But the things which thou shalt see hereafter thou shalt not write; for the Lord God hath ordained the apostle of the Lamb of God that he should write them.
  26 And also others who have been, to them hath he shown all things, and they have written them; and they are sealed up to come forth in their purity, according to the truth which is in the Lamb, in the own due time of the Lord, unto the house of Israel.
  27 And I, Nephi, heard and bear record, that the name of the apostle of the Lamb was john, according to the word of the angel.
  28 And behold, I, Nephi, am forbidden that I should write the remainder of the things which I saw and heard; wherefore the things which I have written sufficeth me; and I have written but a small part of the things which I saw.
  29 And I bear record that I saw the things which my father saw, and the angel of the Lord did make them known unto me.
  30 And now I make an end of speaking concerning the things which I saw while I was carried away in the spirit; and if all the things which I saw are not written, the things which I have written are true. And thus it is. Amen.

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The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
© 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.

[Elsie]

That I should live the WoW despite the fact that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young NEVER did during their lifetimes

1 Timothy 4

 

 1.  The Spirit clearly says that in later times (Latter Days?) some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
 2.  Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.
 3.  They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.

[colorcountry]

What is the Celestial Kingdom. What ordinances must be performed for someone to get there?

GUIDE TO THE SCRIPTURES
Salvation for the Dead
See also Book of Remembrance; Genealogy; Plan of Redemption; Salvation
The opportunity for those who have died without receiving the saving ordinances of the gospel to have these ordinances performed for them in temples by worthy living members of the Church. The dead are taught the gospel in the spirit world and may accept the ordinances performed for them in mortality.
Faithful members of the Church research and prepare family histories to determine the names and birth dates of ancestors so that the saving ordinances may be performed for them.
http://scriptures.lds.org/gs/s/11

You aren’t being entirely truthful are you, billy?

[Elsie]

This represents either ignorance or lying, neither of which are Christian values.

Dang!!!

I just read this somewhere.....

Oh yeah; right here!

 

 To: broncobilly

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.

.

speculation ??

 

You are either ignorant of these words or you are attempting to mislead and lie to people.

76 posted on 11/26/2007 7:51:41 AM CST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 ]

 

[FastCoyote]

A keeper, from the lips of Brigham Young:

“We know there is a portion of inhabitants of the earth who dwell in Asia that are negroes, and said to be jews. The blood of Judah has not only mingled almost with all nations, but also with the blood of Cain, and they have mingled there seeds together; These negro Jewes may keep up all the outer ordinenances of the jewish releigeon, they may have there sacrifices, and they may perform all the releigeous seremonies any people on earth could perform, but let me tell you, that the day they consented to mingle their seed with Cannan, the preisthood was taken away from Judah, and that portion of Judahs seed will never get any rule, or blessings of the preisthood until Cain gets it. Let this Church which is called the kingdom of God on the earth; we will sommons the first presidency, the twelve, the high counsel, the Bishoprick, and all the elders of Isreal, suppose we summons them to apear here, and here declare that it is right to mingle our seed, with the black race of Cain, that they shall come in with with us and be pertakers with us of all the blessings God has given to us. On that very day, and hour we should do so, the preisthood is taken from this Church and kingdom and God leaves us to our fate. The moment we consent to mingle with the seed of Cain the Church must go to desstruction,—we should receive the curse which has been placed upon the seed of Cain, and never more be numbered with the children of Adam who are heirs to the preisthood untill that curse be removed.”

[Elsie]

“... convince us of our errors of doctrine, if we have any, by reason, by logical arguments, or by the Word of God, and we will be ever grateful for the information, and you will ever have the pleasing reflection that you have been instruments in the hands of God of redeeming your fellow beings from the darkness which you may see enveloping their minds.”

- Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, pp. 15-16

 

 

I guess he hadn't taken THESE 'scriptures' to heart!!!

 

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THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

SECTION 9

 

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet to Oliver Cowdery, at Harmony, Pennsylvania, April 1829. HC 1: 37–38. Oliver is admonished to be patient, and is urged to be content to write, for the time being, at the dictation of the translator, rather than to attempt to translate. 1–6, Other ancient records are yet to be translated; 7–14, The Book of Mormon is translated by study and by spiritual confirmation.

 

1 Behold, I say unto you, my son, that because you did not translate according to that which you desired of me, and did commence again to write for my servant, Joseph Smith, Jun., even so I would that ye should continue until you have finished this record, which I have entrusted unto him.

2 And then, behold, other records have I, that I will give unto you power that you may assist to translate.

3 Be patient, my son, for it is wisdom in me, and it is not expedient that you should translate at this present time.

4 Behold, the work which you are called to do is to write for my servant Joseph.

5 And, behold, it is because that you did not continue as you commenced, when you began to translate, that I have taken away this privilege from you.

6 Do not murmur, my son, for it is wisdom in me that I have dealt with you after this manner.

7 Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me.

8 But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must cask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.

9 But if it be not right you shall have no such feelings, but you shall have a stupor of thought that shall cause you to forget the thing which is wrong; therefore, you cannot write that which is sacred save it be given you from me.

10 Now, if you had known this you could have translated; nevertheless, it is not expedient that you should translate now.

11 Behold, it was expedient when you commenced; but you feared, and the time is past, and it is not expedient now;

12 For, do you not behold that I have given unto my servant Joseph sufficient strength, whereby it is made up? And neither of you have I condemned.

13 Do this thing which I have commanded you, and you shall prosper. Be faithful, and yield to no temptation.

14 Stand fast in the work wherewith I have called you, and a hair of your head shall not be lost, and you shall be lifted up at the last day. Amen.

[Elsie]

This law, which is now the law of the State, granted unto the condemned murderer the privilege of choosing for himself whether he die by hanging, or whether he be shot, and thus have his blood shed in harmony with the law of God; and thus atone, so far as it is in his power to atone, for the death of his victim.

HMMmmm...

[FastCoyote]

“I know very well the quote you gave was about capital punishment, “

Yes, capital punishment of apostates and Gentiles. I admit, the LDS no longer practice Blood Atonement through murder, but they still shun and cull apostates and Gentiles.