Posted on 11/24/2007 5:16:09 AM PST by Salena Zito
... & pardon these 2 Saturday, November 24, 2007
The degrading, draconian and disgraceful incarceration of former Border Patrol Agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Alonso Compean indicates President George W. Bush, the self-anointed compassionate conservative, is capable of stone-cold stupidity. By doing their duty along the near-lawless border with Mexico, Messrs. Ramos and Compean have become tragic symbols of this nation's gross incompetence regarding enforcement of immigration law.
(Excerpt) Read more at pittsburghlive.com ...
what is scary is that I expect emotional mistatements from the left...but I find the very same type of thing from some on the right as represented by the above. Their anger concerning the lack of border enforcement is blinding their commonsense.
John and Ken had someone on who said that the pot smuggling in the fall was NOT the first time he'd done it since after the shooting, and I believe they mentioned June. I am sorry, I cannot recall the name of the interviewee but he was massively informed about the case and I believe he was quoting someone (a witness or something?) who said he was running the drugs not long after his shooting. In which month did he receive his immunity?
I’ll just say that a lot of information about this case seems to come from people being interviewed who know lots of stuff and talked to people who told them things.
A story like that can’t be proven false, isn’t known to be true, and has no probative value.
This is why I wait until facts are presented by reputable news sources before I accept the truth of something. Once in a while, these unfounded stories turn out to be true, but often they don’t. Those that don’t simply fade away, except whenever the subject is discussed you’ll get people who will swear they are true because they read them somewhere.
It’s this last aspect that I’m fighting here. I don’t want people years from now to be repeating every false piece of information WND or others put out on this case simply because they didn’t know the sources had no foundation and were wrong.
Some people get mad at me for that, but I don’t care. Some don’t want to wait for proof, since they are sure they are right. They forget all the times that were wrong.
If there was nobody asking for facts here, someone reading THIS thread would have assumed as “truth” that Davila was paid over a million for his testimony, that the fact was illegally withheld from the courts, and that Davila wasn’t really injured at all, and that he was running drugs in June.
Two of those claims were known to be false, and two others have no evidence to support them. Feel free to believe the two with no evidence, but they aren’t facts yet, just speculation.
BTW - I don’t think either Ramos nor Compean are “bad cops” in the sense that they are corrupt, I think Compean made a really bad mistake in firing on OAD and Ramos was just doing his job protecting Compean. That is why I think they should be set free for time served.
But I cannot condone the destruction of evidence and the attempted cover up. If they had come forward at the start and admitted what happened, everyone might have believed the black shiny object story but when the first thing they do is to lie about it, it makes everything they say afterward suspect.
BTW - They’re testimony was awful. A whole lot of holes and statements that other agents contradicted. Of course, the R&S supporters say the other agents and supervisors were all lying and they suggest another one is corrupt and compromised by the drug smugglers....I guess that’s how they claim to “support the Border Patrol agents”.
They must mean support only the ones that shoot unarmed fleeing suspects in the back, the rest, and their reputations, are expendable.
yes, we all need to want the truth about whatever...regardless of what we have believed.
Too long? These people are being screwed and tattooed by BushCo. What did they get? 10 or 12 years each for shooting a professional drug smuggler?
I can't wait until Bush is forced to free these two and they hit the talk shows, unless of course they are beaten to death in prison first.
That may yet happen; look at what happened to Ramos when he first entered prison.
Frankly, I don't put much hope in Bush doing anything for them at this point.
As for the terms, Compean got one year and Ramos two but because their convictions involved using a gun they were subject to a ten year mandatory sentence.
And that is where most of the issue lies. Most, including me, do not believe LEO’s should be subject to this law in the course of their jobs, unless, they were involved in some sort of premeditated corruption. This law was intended for the real bad guys but when it was written they did not include language to exempt cops.
What are they going to say? “we really didn’t mean to pickup those shell casings, dispose of them and then lie to our supervisors about the shooting”?
R&C were convicted on the actions they took to cover this up. They got one and two years for that, the mandatory ten was, well mandatory. IMO the judge did what she could to minimize the sentence (they could have gotten much more time) but her hands were tied regarding the mand10. The secondary issue is why the Justice Dept. pushed for the mand10 and all I can think of is they wanted to make an example, which I think was regrettable.
I would bet Ramos picked his up as well (since they couldn’t find it with a metal detector later) and the only reason Compean had to admit it because he showed them to another agent and asked him to comb the area and pick up any ones he missed.
Of course they did. The suspect was moving drugs since he was 14, involving occasional large sums of money among other things.
You just don’t get it. R&C knew nothing about OAD at the time of the shoot other than that he took them on pursuit and he tried to run away. Are you saying they knew all about him prior to the shooting and THEY KNEW there were drugs in the van? Reasonable suspicion, like seeing the can loaded with something down by the border, doesn’t cut it.
Where did you get this information that OAD was “moving” drugs since 14 and that he handled large sums of cash? All I read was that he was a drug mule, someone who gets paid to move drugs from one location to another so the real drug runners don’t get caught with the goodies.
That's very possible, considering if they believed no one was hit, why deal with the colossal amount of paperwork and and head games. Big deal.
This isn't downtown Manhattan friend. This is the wild west on the front lines of a government sponsored lawless invasion. Sh*t happens.
What? You suggest putting these two agents in the joint with homicidal maniacs, violent social misfits, and the senseless murder gangs....Or how about the endless solitary confinement of protected custody knowing some guy with a lightning bolt tattooed to his tongue, that hates human beings is just hoping for that chance with them. This is appropriate?
Yes, after reading your posts here, I would say considering they shot a professional drug smuggler, you'd say they deserved all this and it's appropriate. When in reality they should have been given an award for bravery in light o the government's own corruption, encouraging and yes, aiding and abetting this entire violent, lawless chaotic invasion.
Oh yes I do slick. More than you'll ever know.
“That’s very possible, considering if they believed no one was hit, why deal with the colossal amount of paperwork and and head games.”
Because that’s what they get paid to do.
“When in reality they should have been given an award for bravery...”
Since when is shooting someone in the back “brave”? Seems pretty CS to me.
While your going after these two small pawns, the reality is Bush and the FedGov are aiding and abetting this epic violent invasion of our country. And then they going after the little guys attempting to combat this government sponsored lawlessness?
You speak of CS?
Looking at the big picture here, it should be clear to all who the real CS's and traitors are.
Ask yourself how many tens of thousands of innocent American victims, cops, children, dads and moms have been killed, injured, raped and robbed by this Fedgov/Bush backed invasion.
Putting things in perspective here, I'd say Bush ought trading places with the two agents.
However, based on your rantings about Bush and the FedGuv I will say this, you sound like one of those trilaterals/CFR conspiracy types. If this is true, no law against it but it certainly puts you out on the fringes of society, some might say a nut. You act is if illegal immigration didn’t exist before Bush and it is some grand conspiracy concocted by Bush and the US government in concert with other world governments to take down America.
So at this point I have nothing more to say to you because you are not arguing the incident, you’re arguing a position (a weird one at that) and only tangentially related to the issue and I tire of banging my head against the wall debating knuckle headed nincompoops who wear tinfoil hats.
No you don't.
However, based on your rantings about Bush and the FedGuv
WOW, what a surprise, you're a Bush/Fedgov supporter?... After reading just one of your posts, who would have ever guessed?
So at this point I have nothing more to say to you
You had nothing to say in the first place. When hit with the big picture of reality, you fold up your tent looking elsewhere to sell support for this corrupt government and administration.
I ain't buying, so you might as well move along.
Try the land of the easily led and ignorant.
“Try the land of the easily led and ignorant.”
No, wouldn’t want to get onto your turf.
BTW - Thanks for confirming my suspicions.
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