Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: MNJohnnie
The term “Christian nation” is an oxymoron. A state must take actions 24/7 to maintain domestic peace and tranquility. Necessary, even imperative, actions like capital punishment and waging war contradict the core Christian ethical requirements. Thus, in most spiritual tradition war is never, ever, ever, ever, justified within the realm of kingdom ethics (those actions commanded or prohibited in the here and now by the New Testament and binding upon believers until the Second Coming). See Jean-Michel Hornus, It Is Not Lawful For Me To Fight: Early Christian Attitudes Toward War, Violence, and the Sate, and John Howard Yoder, The Politics of Jesus (Eerdmans:1972, 260 pgs.).

There is no Godly blessing to be pronounced over the killing of fellow humans. There is no strand of New Testament teaching or slivers of proof-text verses that put a Christian stamp of approval upon war. War is hell. War is of the devil. And anyone who thinks that there are or can be rules for the civilized, organized, lethal infliction of deadly force is delusional.

Over 150 Christian leaders worldwide have declared that our nation building action in Iraq does not comport as a “just war.” I am not sure what they would say had we attacked the financiers of the 911 attack (Saudi Arabia)or Pakistan where most of the terrorists came from and where even today like minded terrorists find refuge, so what Christian denomination should we attack next for their opposition to this war?

The Pope and Catholics?

Pope John Paul II calls War a Defeat for Humanity: Neoconservative Iraq Just War Theories Rejected

31 posted on 11/21/2007 10:53:26 AM PST by KDD (Ron Paul did not approve this post)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies ]


To: KDD

To quote Napoleon:

“And just how many cannon does the Pope have?”


33 posted on 11/21/2007 11:14:13 AM PST by Captain Rhino ( If we have the WILL to do it, there is nothing built in China that we cannot do without.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies ]

To: KDD
Here is Just War Doctrine as defined by the very Catholic Church you cite. Iraq fits even single one of these. Iraq is a Just War no matter how badly that upsets the Paulbots.

The strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force require rigorous consideration. The gravity of such a decision makes it subject to rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy. At one and the same time:

* the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;

(War in Kuwait, Iran and on the people of Iraq themselves. Millions dead by Saddam's hand, a continual state of blockade imposed on the Iraqi people by UN Sanctions and the No Fly Zone_) causing malnutrition and suffering to the people of Iraq

* all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;

(Saddam routinely violated the terms of the 1991 Gulf war, supported International Terrorists, fired on Coalition aircraft and refused to cooperate with UN Weapons Inspectors. He so routinely violated the existing 1991 Ceasefire that there was no hope of any future agreement with him being taken seriously by the Iraqi regime

* there must be serious prospects of success;

Obviously done by anyone who critically thinks about Iraq instead of just mindlessly clings to Neo Isolationist Paulbot dogma know this criteria is met.

* the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.

25 million person nation liberated after 40 years of oppression. No more rape rooms, children prisons, torture chambers, or mass graves. No more UN Sanctions. A free Democratically elected Govt taking shape. Far fewer casualties to either the Iraqis or the Coalition then could ever reasonably been expected. Less collateral damage, few civilian deaths per capita then any other similar military effort in history.

These are the traditional elements enumerated in what is called the "just war" doctrine. The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good.

Iraq qualifies under all these categories. The Pope is wrong.

Sorry but the days of Papal infallibility are LONG gone. The Pope, like the Bishops, are WRONG about Iraq. Which is no surprise since ALL junk media sources of info on it are essentially lying to them by omission. They are given a highly slanted, politically partisan, frequently erronous world view by propagandists pretending to be "Journalists".

Like any other human agenda, any Church leadership is quite capable of error. Learn to live with it.

39 posted on 11/21/2007 1:08:52 PM PST by MNJohnnie (FUND THE WAR! DEFUND THE PORK! FIX THE ATM!-DO SOMETHING DEMOCRATS!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson