Posted on 11/19/2007 5:32:58 AM PST by the tongue
Muddled thinking.
The government does not have rights: it has specific Constitutional obligations and is granted the requisite authority to undertake those obligations.
Under the 14th Amendment, the federal government has the obligation to ensure that no state deprives any person of life without due process of law.
The states do not get to decide who gets to live and who gets to die. They have absolutely zero authority under the US Constitution to legislate on depriving unborn persons of life.
If one believes that abortion is a matter for the states, then one believes that the unborn are not persons and are therefore not protected by the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution.
“Mike is right about this:”
So the 10th Amendment means NOTHING to you, nmh? That’s sad.
Murder is wrong in every state, theft in all its varieties—robbery, burglary, fraud. . .—is wrong in every state, so too assault, rape, vandalism, . . .
yet all of these are defined and prosecuted by state laws, save as they affect interstate commerce or the functioning of the Federal goverement (e.g. murder of Federal officials). Divorce is a moral matter, yet the grounds for divorce (or, alas, policies permitting groundless divorces) are a matter of state law.
It is precisely because it is a moral issue, like murder, theft, the definition of marriage, and the like, that abortion policy is properly decided by the level of government closest to the people affected, as has always been done in the United States from the days when Virginia’s laws had a decidedly Anglican character, and Massachusetts’ laws a Calvinist flavor.
Huckabee is wrong—his logic would create a unitary state, where all laws are Federal, and the states become mere provinces—all political decisions are fundamentally moral decisions, as the fundamental question of politics—how ought we order our society—is subordinate to the fundamental question of morality—how ought we live our lives.
Oh, so making slavery ILLEGAL for ANY state is okay?
But for some ILLOGICAL reason we should leave MURDERING our unborn up to the “states” so we have an ARBITRARY standard on what “murdering the unborn is”. Yeah ... this makes allot of sense - ONLY to those like yourself that are utterly ILOGICAL and COLD. YOU are the ILLOGICAL person and have NO CLUE on our founders and their INTENT.
Abortion has nothing to do with the 10th Amendment. The 10th Amendment does not empower the states to authorize the murder of anyone.
Abortion is MURDER of a small person.
The unalienable right to life needs to be recognized in ALL states and NOT the arbitrary manner you suggest through states. Life is too important to be left up to illogical folks like you that are abortion, murder supporters.
Interesting discussion. Thanks to all posters.
life
Written historical records date abortions back to ancient Egypt. Legal & illegal abortions have existed in all societies. The founding fathers were well read enough to know this and yet they left this (as with murder) up to the states. This is how it was before Roe v. Wade. To go further requires a Constitutional Amendment - which today could not pass the 3/4 of the states. Period & end of story.
This is hyperbole, firstly, and secondly it is bad legal argument.
Are the unborn persons or are they not?
If they are not, then abortion on demand should be freely available.
If they are persons, then they are protected from being deprived of their lives on a federal basis by the 14th Amendment.
If you want to make all murders federal crimes ok, but I hardly think the federal government is equipped to deal with that. Why are you getting personal and calling me cold? Does everyone have to believe exactly like you do?
“Abortion needs to be ILLEGAL in EVERY state - just like slavery.
I have NO DOUBT that our founders would NOT want abortion legal in ANY state.”
Take the word “abortion” out of the equation and look at the issue. It’s a clear states rights issue, as the Constitution provides no right to the feds in the issue of prosecuting crime beyond piracy and treason. Murder isn’t mentioned anywhere.
That said, I agree abortion shouldn’t be legal, but I don’t want the feds taking care of it.
So insulting me is gonna make me see things your way? Whose ignorance is showing now?
That is exactly my position, and I believe that's the way Fred Thompson sees it.
“That said, I agree abortion shouldn’t be legal, but I don’t want the feds taking care of it.”
May I add, neither did the founders because they reserved no specific clause to abortion.
“Huckabee is wrong—his logic would create a unitary state, where all laws are Federal, and the states become mere provinces—all political decisions are fundamentally moral decisions, as the fundamental question of politics—how ought we order our society—is subordinate to the fundamental question of morality—how ought we live our lives.”
Hurrah to this post. Federalizing this law will lead to federalization of the next thing, and then the next thing. Like the idea of a federal driver’s liscense? Huck’s idea would bring THAT one step closer by empowering the feds to jump further into our lives.
QUESTIONS TO ALL ABORTION FOES:
Why after struggling to overturn Roe v. Wade for 40 years, and when it is now probably within one SCOTUS appointment from being done, you know want to move the goal post back further for the cause?
Why risk having another Clinton fill the next SCOTUS vacancy and save Roe v. Wade for our lifetime?
IS overturning Roe v. Wade is NOW NOT ENOUGH?
Well Huck, if you can get the constitution amended, by all means do so, but in the meantime, how about respecting the Constitution we have right now.
Maybe Chuck could secure the border, but it would be pretty hard for him to do with Huck handing out green cards for Jesus.
IS overturning Roe v. Wade is NOW NOT ENOUGH?
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