Romney Calls Attacks on His Faith Un-American

Right Views USA ^ | November 17, 2007 | Keith Anders

[greyfoxx39]

I had not yet considered that this poll maybe a DNC exploratory foray.

Doesn't pass the smell test, IMO.

[FastCoyote]

[Yet I don’t see you and others calling him out on his rejection of mainstream Christianity.

So, you may understand my confusion on this matter.]

And that’s because Fred does not upset the apple cart, Mitt brings with him the whole Mormon hierarchy behind him. Moreover, no one believes Fred is on a God track, we’re having enough trouble just getting him to run much less assume the ego thing will go to his head. I voted for my Mormon governor, but simply too many problems at the presidential level.

[GOP_Lady]

I’m glad that you and your friends have decided to settle down. :-)

[Osage Orange]

I've been very settled...from the get-go.

But IMO, you are just another loose cannon.

[GOP_Lady]

Oh, I don’t think I am. You and your friends come in here and pounce on everyone and everybody. What do you expect? Maybe a true “discussion” next time rather than “hit posts” would be nicer.

[Diamond]

Thanks for the ping, MHG.

I should note that even that huge list does not contain some of the Scriptural evidence. The first chapter of Hebrews, for example, contains all five categories of proof of the deity of Christ.

Here's one of my favorites from Isaiah, that is not on the list:

Whose Glory did Isaiah see?

Isaiah 6

Isaiah's Commission

 1 In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of his robe filled the temple. 2 Above him were seraphs, each with six wings: With two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying. 3 And they were calling to one another:
       "Holy, holy, holy is the LORD Almighty;
       the whole earth is full of his glory."

 4 At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook and the temple was filled with smoke.

 5 "Woe to me!" I cried. "I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the LORD Almighty."

 6 Then one of the seraphs flew to me with a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with tongs from the altar. 7 With it he touched my mouth and said, "See, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away and your sin atoned for."

 8 Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?"
      And I said, "Here am I. Send me!"

 9 He said, "Go and tell this people:
       " 'Be ever hearing, but never understanding;
       be ever seeing, but never perceiving.'

 10 Make the heart of this people calloused;
       make their ears dull
       and close their eyes. ^[a]
       Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
       hear with their ears,
       understand with their hearts,
       and turn and be healed."

 

Now, Isaiah says he saw the "LORD" (YHWH). But John quotes this Isaiah passage and states that Isaiah said this because he saw the Jesus' glory and spoke of Him!

The Jews Continue in Their Unbelief

 37 Even after Jesus had done all these miraculous signs in their presence, they still would not believe in him. 38 This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet:
   "Lord, who has believed our message
      and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?"^[a]

 39 For this reason they could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere:
 40 "He has blinded their eyes
      and deadened their hearts,
   so they can neither see with their eyes,
      nor understand with their hearts,
      nor turn—and I would heal them."^[b] 41 Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus' glory and spoke about him.

People who deny the trinity may not like it, but just tell them I prefer to believe the Apostle John's interpretation of the Isaiah passage., not theirs.

Cordially,

[tantiboh]

~”Based on your postings here on FR. You are. You certainly come across that way...anyway.”~

Fair enough.

Another interesting characteristic of the INTJ personality type is that we really don’t care what other people think about us.

Have a good one!

[tantiboh]

~”Would you call what Tompkins did in South Carolina “Un-American”?”~

Yes.

~”Are you even aware that Tompkins is on Mitt’s payroll?”~

No. Thanks for the info.

~”There are a LOT of people making the connection to this poll.”~

Correlation is not evidence.

It is my opinion that a bunch of you are being too smart by half with this proposed Romney connection.

Time will tell, I suppose.

[tantiboh]

~”I had not yet considered that this poll maybe a DNC exploratory foray. Thanks”~

An interesting theory. It certainly buttresses the need to watch the results of this situation very carefully.

[GOP_Lady]

Have a good one, as well.

[tantiboh]

~”Oh, I don’t think I am. You and your friends come in here and pounce on everyone and everybody.”~

It’s much better, I’ve found, to respond to such people with limitless reason, respect, and patience. Since a chief goal of thiers is to get our goats, it drives ‘em nuts!

[tabsternager]

You can choose whomever you want to vote for. The point is this country was founded on freedom of religion and not just for Christians.

So for a Christian to use the public square to tear down a candidate just because of his religion in order to sway voters goes against what this country was founded on. In case you didn’t know, the election is for Commander in Chief, not theologian in chief.

It amazes me the double standard of some Christians, who say they’d vote for a nonbelieving Jew or a nonbelieving gentile but never a Morman even though he agrees with them on the moral issues. Where candidates stand on the issues is what matters. God’s not finished with them yet as far as their souls.

[Starwolf]

While I totally agree that LDS != Christian, I do have a concern about the word cult. While correct in a Christian theological context, it gets confused with the Jonestown and the like in the minds of many. It also should not be used about Scientology or other non-Christian religions.

The real issue with Scientology here is not its belief structure, but is its claim of being Christian. Its not, anymore than Islam or other “sucessor” religons. If it would just acknowledge that and move on, this would be a non-issue

[tabsternager]

Looks like you forgot Eisenhower was a Jehovah’s witness.

Many Christians actually voted for him because of where he stood on the issues. They knew they were electing a Commander in Chief, not theologian in chief.

[GOP_Lady]

Thank you. You are correct. But it can only be done for so long. There is too much of this going on at this site. God bless us all. :-)

[tantiboh]

~"But it can only be done for so long."~

I agree with that. I've been mostly absent for the last couple of weeks for precisely that reason.

Sit back, relax, enjoy a delicious fruity drink in front of your favorite diversion, and come back the next day. All will be right as rain!

[FastCoyote]

“You can choose whomever you want to vote for. The point is this country was founded on freedom of religion and not just for Christians.”

Well that’s mighty grand of you. And can I reject Scientologists, jihadis, Santerians, Wiccans, Satanists, Heavens Gaters, Moonies, Mormons or others because I disagree with their religious motives, or must I turn a blind eye, cackle like a chicken and just mindlessly pull the lever?

“So for a Christian to use the public square to tear down a candidate just because of his religion in order to sway voters goes against what this country was founded on.”

I have never called for anyone to be denied the right to 1) believe in whatever Baal they choose 2) run for any office they choose. I am just curious what kinds of people would deny me the right to express my opinion and furthermore deny me the right to vote the way I choose? I think Hugo Chavez has a similar voters rights plan.

“In case you didn’t know, the election is for Commander in Chief, not theologian in chief.”

Therefore, under your assumptions we could elect Moctezuma president, though he believed in cutting out the hearts of his political enemies, because it would be UNAMERICAN to ask about his religion. Wow, at what point do we get to paint Stupid on your back?
“It amazes me the double standard of some Christians, who say they’d vote for a nonbelieving Jew or a nonbelieving gentile but never a Morman even though he agrees with them on the moral issues.”

I don’t agree with Romney on the moral issues. For example, Mitt was 18 when he met his 15 year old wife to-be Ann, then he had his powerful father brainwash her into Mormonism in a 6 day indoctrination. Now maybe you want to uphold family values like brainwashing, but I don’t.

“Where candidates stand on the issues is what matters. God’s not finished with them yet as far as their souls.”

But, what if their issues, like Romneycare, are the result of their religious convictions on how the world works? But you know what, why try and debate a brick?

[Diamond]

[Imagine: “George Bush believe in water mysteriously turning into wine. His faith says that only the people who accept Jesus are loved by his God enough to be saved in his heaven. George Bush’s faith teaches that people have inexplicably risen from the dead. What he calls holy scripture actually contains passages that instruct that gays should be murdered along with women who cheat on their husbands. Would you vote for a candidate with these beliefs?”]

I would ask the questioner, since when is capital punishment "murder"? I didn't get that memo. I didn't get the one that says that the United States are the ancient Kingdom of Israel, either.

Be that as it may, on what basis does the questioner condemn the the criminal laws of another society? If the questioner is atheist, what foundation is there for atheistic moralizing about the evils of capital punishment in the first place?

Cordially,

[FastCoyote]

“If the questioner is atheist, what foundation is there for atheistic moralizing about the evils of capital punishment in the first place?”

That’s why I could not vote for an atheist, because at some point their philosophy must come down to “do whatever feels right, just don’t get caught”.

Mormons have what I believe is a mirror image problem, if you are going to become a God, at some point your rules apply without consequence to a higher authority. Unless you just become a demigod and not a God by works. Of course, that would leave Jesus a demigod. It gets quite confusing, I would rather not have a confused president.

[tantiboh]

~”For example, Mitt was 18 when he met his 15 year old wife to-be Ann, then he had his powerful father brainwash her into Mormonism in a 6 day indoctrination.”~

Oooh, that’s a new one for me! Congratulations, you’ve actually come up with an original polemic against Romney!

Tell me, I’m a 28-year-old single Mormon man (Virgo), seeking single Mormon woman in her 20’s for romantic walks on the temple grounds. Do you think I can find a good woman to brainwash? You know, since it’s so easy (6 days) and all?