Posted on 11/17/2007 7:33:50 AM PST by Dubya
Not exaclty wayward "yutes".
This "lawyer" should sue his law school, or least learn to read the law more carefully. Yes the law provides justification for stopping "theft during the nighttime" and "criminal mischief during the nighttime", but there is no such restriction for stopping robbery, burglary (which this was) or arson.
There is a "during the nighttime" restriction if the crime being prevented is simple theft, or criminal mischief. But this was a burglary, where no such restriction applies.
It was time for the felons to cease and desist. When they started advancing toward him--two on one--he was well justified in believing that they meant him harm. They clearly were not Girl Scouts selling cookies. They were males in the prime of life physically, he was an old man, and they had already demonstrated that the law would NOT restrain them from committing felonies.
Now if he had shot them while they were fleeing, I might agree with you. But he didn't. He was where he had a right to be, was holding a gun he had a right to be holding, and they advanced on him. They were less than 15 feet away--a distance that could be quickly and easily closed. They could have easily killed him by overpowering him.
I can't understand why you apparently believe everyone should hide, submit, roll over, and be victims of criminals.
Did he shoot up some cars or the side of a house? I see no reason to question his aiming ability here.
Are you in LE?
Look, there's the traditional European way of fighting ~ get your guns, line up in rows, stand up, fire, and die.
Then, there's the traditional American way ~ you get your gun, you find cover, wait until you see the whites of their eyes and then shoot 'em. Duck quickly while you reload.
Another trick is when you are faced with an enemy outfitted with lots of Tiger Tanks you bring in as many artillery pieces as they have rifles. You blow away at them for several weeks until they're all dead.
Mr. Horn shows every sign of not having a grasp of the way we do the job. He's lucky the cops didn't shoot him.
Besides, up to this point we have only his story.
We really do need a lot more information about this case to draw many of the conclusions we've seen here.
We really do need a lot more information about this case to draw many of the conclusions we've seen here.
No, he didn't check what was behind his targets, and at about 2PM you have gradeschool letting out.
Were young children in the area?
You obviously don't know what you're talking about.
The spread of the shot is dependent on the choke of the shotgun (full, modified, improved cylinder, etc.). At only 15 feet, and given that the scumbags were probably not standing/walking/running right next to each other (they may have been separating to flank Mr. Horn), it was likely impossible to kill them both with one shot.
As far as "the children, the children!" (you sound like a democrat, "Don't defend yourself because there MIGHT be children in the area!"), I bet, like most neighborhoods, there was hardly anyone around at 2 pm. Yes, some schools let out in the early afternoon (elementary schools where I live START letting out at 2:30 pm), but IF there were little crumb-crunchers in the area during the righteous shooting of these two turds, then the media would have run with that AND the scumbag's "grieving" (and complaining) welfare queen wife, instead of just the wife alone.
Again, you sound like an anti-gun democrat, in that it appears you think all gun owners are to stupid/careless/bumbling/untrained to be able to responsibly own and deploy a firearm properly. Given statistics concerning gun owners/CCW holders, Mr. Horn, and the rest of us deserve more credit than you, and people like you, give us.
There are, what, something like 300 MILLION privately owned guns in this country, and there is not chaos and death in the streets. Lighten up, "the sky is NOT falling", Francis. My last point, and one other thing to understand, is that pellets from shotgun shells do not travel as far as rifle/handgun bullets, and are less likely to go through the target and hit something behind.
So, yeah!
It's apparent you didn't notice this guy SHOT AT AND HIT two men ~ so however weak those pellets were they did the job.
Which raises a question ~ let's say you're correct and the shotgun was barely able to scare away quail and here he has shot and killed two guys ~ would you say that maybe he was a lot closer than 15 feet?
And you still don't know if they were robbing the neighbor's house. Until we get more information that's just a supposition.
It's apparent you didn't notice this guy SHOT AT AND HIT two men ~ so however weak those pellets were they did the job.
Which raises a question ~ let's say you're correct and the shotgun was barely able to scare away quail and here he has shot and killed two guys ~ would you say that maybe he was a lot closer than 15 feet?
And you still don't know if they were robbing the neighbor's house. Until we get more information that's just a supposition.
1. Do they have 8 or more periods?
2. If they don't have more than 7 periods, still no problem, unless the little shits get in a teleporter and miraculously appear in their neighborhood in a nanosecond. /sarc
So, yeah!
How old are you?
There are even more schools in the area. Check all their schedules if you want.
Early afternoon is a common time for schools to let out ~ Texas is not that terribly different.
Now, what's your take on the discovery (rumored apparantly, but I got this from Texas sources) that these two guys worked for CenterPoint and were breaking into the house to get the owner's cash so he could make bail and get out of jail. He still hasn't returned home; no one came to make bail, and these two are dead. Rumor has it the CenterPoint truck was still in the neighborhood Saturday afternoon.
Any truth to that one.
We still don't have all the facts in on this one.
In short, I know firearms.
I never said that shotgun pellets were "weak", or anything about them being "barely able to scare away a quail" (where DO you get this sh*t?). A shotgun is a close in weapon, period (unless, and I DOUBT it's the case here, one uses slugs).
Unlike you, pulling "facts" out of your ass, I read in the story that the perps were 15 feet away when he came outside, but they could have been closer by the time he shot them.
The story and the audio also states that the perps had broken into the neighbor's house and come out with "loot". I DOUBT that a 61 year old man is just going to go out and shoot two people in his neighborhood for no good reason.
Even the prosecutor and judge are required to consider this guy innocent until proven guilty, I think we, as his fellow citizens can give him the benefit of the doubt based on what we've read and heard so far.
Yes, the facts will all come out, and I feel confident this man will either not be charged, or will be found not guilty by a jury of his peers.
Dear Dead Men,
You made your choice.
Sincerely,
Satisfied Citizen
People are sick and tired of the laws not doing their jobs.
Now concerning firing weapons at 6 or 7, I was allowed to fire the over/under at 4 and 5 (for just the .22 round), and progressed to the .410 shotgun barrel at a little older, but the really big time was firing the 12 gauge all by myself (at 10 or 11 )surrounded by all the men in the family ~ big strapping farmers and factory workers ~ all with experience in WWI and WWII. BTW, remember that command track with the 1/15 that led the line of attack in Iraq? Not the tank ~ he had a camera too, and when they took a look at what he was looking at, you saw the command track ~ my heart about flipped out when I saw it was #47, and I and a gazillion other guys know that one. Made me feel really good ~
Fully loaded 12 gauge can really knock you backwards Fur Shur.
So, yeah, all we have is this guy's story on the distances. We were always taught to pull the body outside into the front yard, so I suppose you could pull them across the line into your own front yard. If they hadn't bled out much he might get away with it.
Like I said, all the facts aren't in on this one.
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