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Poll: Do you think the "moment of silence" law for Illinois schools is unconstitutional?
State Journal Register ^ | November 16, 2007 | the eagle has landed

Posted on 11/16/2007 4:19:41 PM PST by TheEaglehasLanded

Do you think the "moment of silence" law for Illinois schools is unconstitutional?

Yes 44.1% No 55.9%

Total votes: 3282

Enforcing moment of silence blocked Lawyer: All school districts may be added to lawsuit

By CARLA JOHNSON THE ASSOCIATED PRESS Published Friday, November 16, 2007

CHICAGO - An atheist talk show host's attorney said Thursday he may try to add all Illinois school districts as defendants in a lawsuit challenging a mandatory moment of silence in classrooms.

Suing all 871 districts may be the best way to get a clear answer about the new state law's constitutionality, attorney Gregory Kulis said. A federal judge in Chicago issued a preliminary injunction Thursday, temporarily blocking the state school superintendent from enforcing the Silent Reflection and Student Prayer Act. The law requires a brief period of prayer or reflective silence at the start of every school day.

Atheist activist Rob Sherman and his 14-year-old daughter filed a lawsuit last month against the suburban Chicago district where she attends school. Districts should take the judge's latest ruling as a signal that the law violates the U.S. Constitution, Sherman said.

"It seems to me that the judge has indicated the law doesn't have a prayer," Sherman said.

Sherman says the law is an attempt to inject religion into public schools. His daughter is a freshman at Buffalo Grove High School in Township High School District 214.

Judge Robert Gettleman's ruling may leave teachers and principals confused about what they're supposed to do now, Kulis said.

At Thursday's hearing, the judge and attorneys discussed adding all the school districts as a "defendant class," and the judge gave Kulis until Dec. 6 to decide whether to file a motion seeking the change.

A spokesman for State School Superintendent Christopher Koch said Koch doesn't have a way to enforce the law because there are no penalties.

"It is up to each individual local district to make the decision to comply with any state law," said Koch spokesman Matt Vanover.

The judge's ruling came a day after he issued a similar injunction barring District 214 from enforcing the law. Gettleman was more specific in his directions to that district because it was named as a defendant in the case.

"This isn't our law. We didn't pass it. We're simply trying to do our best," said attorney Brian McCarthy, who represents District 214.

The judge set the next hearing in the case for Dec. 14.

Before a one-word change made by lawmakers, state law already let schools in Illinois have a moment of silence if they desired to do so. The new measure, which went into effect last month, changed the word "may" in the law to "shall," mandating a moment of silence or prayer.

State Rep. John Fritchey, D-Chicago, filed a bill in the legislature Thursday that would undo that change. The bill would remove the words "student prayer" from the law and allow teachers to conduct a moment of silence before each school day rather than requiring them to do so by changing the language from "shall observe" to "may conduct."

Sherman has filed previous lawsuits to remove religious symbols from the public sphere.

In 1989, he challenged a state law requiring public school students to recite the Pledge of Allegiance. He said that reciting in school the words "under God" contained in the pledge was unconstitutional.

Associated Press writer Ryan Keith in Springfield contributed to this report.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: clinton; judge; momentofsilence; publikskoolz; silence; unconstitution
The 4th Circuit ruled mandatory moments of silence constitutional 7 years ago and the Supreme Court let the ruling stand. I'm sure the Judge Gettleman knew that and ruled against it anyway.

High Court rejects 'moment of silence' case October 29, 2001 Posted: 11:12 AM EST (1612 GMT)

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WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Supreme Court rejected a challenge Monday to a state law requiring schoolchildren to observe a daily minute of silence.

The court did not comment in turning down an appeal from opponents who claim Virginia's minute of silence is an unconstitutional government encouragement of classroom prayer in public schools.

The state says the minute of silence does not violate the separation of church and state, because children may meditate or stare out the window for 60 seconds if they choose, so long as they are quiet. The court's action means the daily minute of silence will continue, and opponents are left with no immediate options to challenge it.

The law passed in 2000 makes the minute of silence mandatory for Virginia's 1 million public school pupils, and specifically lists prayer as one silent activity they might choose.

The law's preamble states its purpose as assuring that "free exercise of religion be guaranteed within the schools."

The American Civil Liberties Union wrote:

"Although the statute permits students to engage in other forms of silent or meditative activity during the time period set aside in the classroom, the statute was enacted specifically to facilitate and encourage school prayer at that fixed time."

The ACLU argued that the appeals court ruling cannot be reconciled with a 1985 Supreme Court case, which struck down a similar moment of silence law in Alabama. In that case, the high court found that the state was placing an official imprimatur on classroom prayer.

At least four other states have laws like Virginia's, which both require the silence and link it to prayer or religious observance.

The others are Nebraska, Nevada, Tennessee and West Virginia. Several other states have laws mandating schoolday silence but without an express mention of prayer.

In Virginia, the ACLU's lawsuit on behalf of seven students and their parents failed in lower federal courts. A divided three-judge panel of the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals found the law constitutional because students may choose for themselves how to spend the silent time.

Opponents also lost a last-minute attempt to block the law from being enforced this school year.

The appeals court "found ample evidence that ... (the Virginia law) has a clear secular purpose, namely, to provide a moment for quiet reflection in the wake of high-profile instances of violence in our public schools," Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist wrote in rejecting that request last month.

"The act does not require students to do anything or say anything or hear anything," Virginia Attorney General Randolph A. Beales wrote in asking the court to reject the ACLU's broader appeal.

"It does not require them to make any gesture or acknowledgment. It only requires them to stay in their seats, to remain silent and not to distract their classmates."

The Virginia law replaced one in place since 1976 that allowed schools to observe silence if they choose. Fewer than 20 schools districts statewide did so.

The First Amendment guarantees both that government will not promote or "establish" religion, and that Americans may exercise their chosen religion freely. In practice, that has meant shifting standards for what is allowed in public places such as schools.

The justices banned organized prayer during class hours in the 1960s, and classroom display of the Ten Commandments in 1980. In the past decade the court has banned clergy-led prayer at high school graduation ceremonies and student-led prayer at football games.

But the court also ruled in 1993 that a public school must let a religious group show Christian movies in the building, and ruled in 1995 that a public university could not deny funding to a Christian publication.

The justices have also allowed taxpayer-funded computers and remedial help by public school teachers at religious schools.

In June, the court ruled that if the Boy Scouts and 4-H can use a public school as a meeting hall, a children's Bible study class can, too.

The court has agreed to decide next year whether taxpayer money may go to underwrite tuition at religious schools.

The Virginia case is Brown v. Gilmore, 01-384.

1 posted on 11/16/2007 4:19:44 PM PST by TheEaglehasLanded
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To: TheEaglehasLanded

Perhaps the best thing is to just rule public schools are unconstitutional.


2 posted on 11/16/2007 4:23:50 PM PST by Always Right
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To: TheEaglehasLanded

I think that damned near everything in Illinois is unconstitutional.

I cannot believe that I used to live there.


3 posted on 11/16/2007 4:24:33 PM PST by ButThreeLeftsDo (Carry Daily, Apply Sparingly.)
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To: TheEaglehasLanded; 2ndDivisionVet; A knight without armor; Alexander Rubin; AmericaUnite; ...
Yes 43.9% No 56.1%

FREEP THIS POLL ***PING!*** FRmail me if you want to be added or removed from the Fearless Poll-Freeping Freepers Ping list. And be sure to ping me to any polls that need Freepin', if I miss them. (looks like a medium volume list) (gordongekko909, founder of the pinglist, stays on the list until his ghost signs up for the list)

4 posted on 11/16/2007 4:27:28 PM PST by dynachrome (Immigration without assimilation means the death of this nation~Captainpaintball)
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To: TheEaglehasLanded

Of all the dumb things going on, this war against a moment of silence is way up high on the list.


5 posted on 11/16/2007 4:30:27 PM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light..... Isaiah 5:20)
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To: TheEaglehasLanded

Shitbag men in black strike again.


6 posted on 11/16/2007 4:36:59 PM PST by vpintheak (Like a muddied spring or a polluted well is a righteous man who gives way to the wicked. Prov. 25:26)
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To: vpintheak
"Shitbag men in black strike again."

Well said....and spot-on.

7 posted on 11/16/2007 4:39:32 PM PST by traditional1
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past

And yet we are expected to provide foot baths and prayer rooms etc. for Muslims


8 posted on 11/16/2007 4:47:12 PM PST by gidget7 ( Vote for the Arsenal of Democracy, because America RUNS on Duncan!)
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To: dynachrome

Click Your Pick
Do you think the “moment of silence” law for Illinois schools is unconstitutional?

Yes 43.7%
No 56.3%

Total votes: 3331
Results not scientific


9 posted on 11/16/2007 4:55:51 PM PST by pattty (Duncan Hunter '08!)
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To: dynachrome

How do you do get the FREEP this Poll Ping, Sorry I didn’t put that in the title.


10 posted on 11/16/2007 4:55:57 PM PST by TheEaglehasLanded
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To: TheEaglehasLanded

Put “Freep a Poll” in parantheses after the title or use it as the title and subject matter in parantheses. (the almighty and powerful mods prefer polls be posted in chat, if you post them regularly)
Ping me to the thread and I’ll show up sooner or later with the ping list!
(I’ll put ya on the list if ya wish)


11 posted on 11/16/2007 5:03:01 PM PST by dynachrome (Immigration without assimilation means the death of this nation~Captainpaintball)
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To: dynachrome

bttt


12 posted on 11/16/2007 5:12:02 PM PST by TheEaglehasLanded
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To: TheEaglehasLanded

Actually, I just search “poll” by date and most everything pops up.


13 posted on 11/16/2007 5:21:34 PM PST by dynachrome (Immigration without assimilation means the death of this nation~Captainpaintball)
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To: TheEaglehasLanded

Yes: Somebody might think about G-d.


14 posted on 11/16/2007 5:22:52 PM PST by ichabod1 ("Self defense is not only our right, it is our duty." President Ronald Reagan)
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To: TheEaglehasLanded

Dumbfounded..can’t get words out of my mouth!!


15 posted on 11/16/2007 6:08:57 PM PST by PROCON
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To: dynachrome

Done

Yes 43.0%
No 57.0%

Total votes: 3414


16 posted on 11/16/2007 6:16:28 PM PST by toldyou
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To: Always Right
Perhaps the best thing is to just rule public schools are unconstitutional.

They can't do that. After all, public schools really ARE unconstitutional.

17 posted on 11/16/2007 6:51:12 PM PST by SeƱor Zorro ("The ability to speak does not make you intelligent"--Qui-Gon Jinn)
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