Posted on 11/15/2007 7:50:21 AM PST by Attention Surplus Disorder
Frontal Assault on Freedom: FBI Raids Liberty Dollar Posted by BJT on Nov 15, 2007 Read this email closely. I just got it this morning. Those of you who consider the gold standard a quaint anachronism, pay extra close attention. If Ron Paul supporters, gold standard advocates and the Liberty Dollar were nothing but harmless kooks, why would the FBI raid their offices when no crime was ever committed? This is a currency competing with the USD, yes, but they never, but never make the claim that it is legal tender or anything other than what it is: private currency. And private currencies are numerous in the USA.
No. This raid happened because the Liberty Dollar, the second most popular currency in the country, threatens to usurp the entrenched power of the Fed’s Almighty Dollar. People can see the buying power of the greenback eroding, and they will choose something else if it is available, and the Liberty Dollar is ready and waiting. And that’s why the government must resort to force in order to protect its stranglehold on the economy.
From Liberty Dollar Headquarters: Dear Liberty Dollar Supporters:
I sincerely regret to inform you that about 8:00 this morning a dozen FBI and Secret Service agents raided the Liberty Dollar office in Evansville.
For approximately six hours they took all the gold, all the silver, all the platinum and almost two tons of Ron Paul Dollars that where just delivered last Friday. They also took all the files, all the computers and froze our bank accounts.
We have no money. We have no products. We have no records to even know what was ordered or what you are owed. We have nothing but the will to push forward and overcome this massive assault on our liberty and our right to have real money as defined by the US Constitution. We should not to be defrauded by the fake government money.
But to make matters worse, all the gold and silver that backs up the paper certificates and digital currency held in the vault at Sunshine Mint has also been confiscated. Even the dies for mint the Gold and Silver Libertys have been taken.
This in spite of the fact that Edmond C. Moy, the Director of the Mint, acknowledged in a letter to a US Senator that the paper certificates did not violate Section 486 and were not illegal. But the FBI and Services took all the paper currency too.
The possibility of such action was the reason the Liberty Dollar was designed so that the vast majority of the money was in specie form and in the people’s hands. Of the $20 million Liberty Dollars, only about a million is in paper or digital form.
I regret that if you are due an order. It may be some time until it will be filled… if ever… it now all depends on our actions.
Everyone who has an unfulfilled order or has digital or paper currency should band together for a class action suit and demand redemption. We cannot allow the government to steal our money! Please don’t let this happen!!! Many of you read the articles quoting the government and Federal Reserve officials that the Liberty Dollar was legal. You did nothing wrong. You are legally entitled to your property. Let us use this terrible act to band together and further our goal – to return America to a value based currency.
Please forward this important Alert… so everyone who possess or use the Liberty Dollar is aware of the situation.
Please click HERE to sign up for the class action lawsuit and get your property back!
If the above link does not work you can access the page by copying the following into your web browser. http://www.libertydollar.org/classaction/index.php
Thanks again for your support at this darkest time as the damn government and their dollar sinks to a new low.
Bernard von NotHaus
When RP supporters refer to our national currency as “fake money” and their own “private” coins as “real money,” I think maybe they’re flirting with wacko-ism and jail time.
According to the e-mail, about a dozen agents arrived Wednesday morning and seized gold, silver, platinum and nearly two tons of recently delivered Ron Paul Dollars. They also took all the files, all the computers and froze the group's bank accounts, the e-mail said.
"We have no money. We have no products. We have no records to even know what was ordered or what you are owed,...he e-mail said the gold and silver that backs up the paper and digital currency was confiscated, as were the dies used to mint the Liberty Dollars themselves. As a result, it warns that recent orders placed for Liberty Dollars may not be filled..."
So, all we have for verification that a raid took place is this email? The fact their website may still be up isn't relevant because it's likely on their ISP's server, not their own PC (unless they had their own server in-house). And the email could have been sent from a separate PC not at the shop when the raid took place. But still, Is this a true story? Or is it an elaborate hoax?
Thank you for doing that.
Again, the only source for this story is the Email. The Evansville Courier is running the story wholly sourced on the email. The FBI sokesperson is unable to confirm it.
As the story points out neither the FBI, nor the supposed source of this claim this “ Bernard von NotHaus” (which is a very fake sounding name that does not exist in German btw), have been able to confirm a word of this.
Jack Booted Thugs
The Courier&Press reporter apparently visited the office, and described a scene of “cleaning up” from the raid. Surely if everything was normal-looking at the office, the reporter would have mentioned it, right? Why not call the reporter and ask?
Well, I'd rather have a coin worth $15 than a coin worth $1.
I'd rather have a 20 dollar bill than the "20 dollar" coin that only contains $15 worth of silver.
I think it is wise to have some money invested in tangible assets in case of a disaster such as the complete crash of the dollar, but I have a different heavy metal in mind.
Let the silly pacifists invest in gold and silver. I'm investing in copper jacketed lead and brass.
I don't have any historic charts of the price of .45 ACP rounds, but it seems to me they have generally appreciated in value over the years, and they are worth the most when you need them the most.
Gold and silver has practical purposes, but their main value comes from them being pretty. The materials historically have value, and maintain their value primarily because people believe them to have value. They really don't have as much "intrinsic" value as you credit them with.
Now ammunition on the other hand has intrinsic value. So if you want to push for a currency based on something useful, skip over this whole gold standard crap and support a copper jacketed lead standard instead.
Note: I'm being at least somewhat sarcastic.
Looks like the FBI and Secret Service are taking lessons from the BATF on how to silence vocal critics.
http://waronguns.blogspot.com/2007/07/breaking-news-batfu-accuses-reds-of.html
And where do you get "$15 worth?" The United States Mint sells one ounce of silver for $29.95. Subtract a couple of bucks for the velvet-lined presentation case and the $20 one-ounce silver Liberty Dollar still looks like a bargain.
Nothing says they visited the office. The employees could just have well told the reporter that by phone. Or, they could have made it look as though a raid occurred.
Do you take everything a reporter writes as Gospel? I don’t. Nor am I interested enough to make a call. If you want to, go ahead. You make use of this ploy often enough in posts; try it yourself.
Curious thing. When I wait thru all the various paeans of praise to Von NotHaus I find this item.
Rogue Number Three: NORFED (http://www.norfed.org).
October 29, 1998
Militia Watchdog Official Alert
Investigators, Journalists, Others Urged to Monitor NORFED
The Militia Watchdog has learned of a new organization which, as described, carries considerable potential for fraud or misuse. The Militia Watchdog urges all law enforcement officers, journalists, activists and others to scrutinize this organization and its activities carefully.
Background: One of the major “hot button” issues for adherents to the so-called “patriot” movement is the “money” issue. A summary of this issue would be that the creation of the Federal Reserve and the change from a gold standard to paper money was not only illegal and unconstitutional, but part of a large plot to impoverish the country and enrich the “international bankers” (usually alleged to be Jews). As a result, paper money (federal reserve notes or “FRNs” as the “patriot” movement abbreviates the term) is looked upon with suspicion and disgust. This has led to numerous attempts to invent alternative currencies, often by people who are themselves all too willing to accept federal reserve notes in exchange for dubious alternatives. In the early 1980s tax protester Tupper Saussy created a stir with his “Public Office Money Certificates,” which were a sort of bogus promissory note. In the late 1980s, various conmen created illegitimate “sight drafts” that were alleged to be as valid as federal reserve notes. And in the mid-1990s a host of groups including USA First, Family Farm Preservation, the Republic of Texas and, most famously, the Montana Freemen, created billions of dollars worth of bogus money orders and checks. This last resurgence resulted in scores of successful prosecutions around the country. However, these convictions only stopped certain perpetrators; they did nothing to end the sentiment. It would only be a matter of time before the next alternative currency scheme was hatched.
NORFED: NORFED is an abbreviation for a group calling itself the National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve Act. In its own words, it is a “membership based nonprofit organization dedicated to using all its revenue to restore a honest monetary system for all Americans, as required by our Constitution. It is governed by a Board of Directors, and a Members Advisory Council.” No Board or Council members could be found listed on its website.
Contact information for its leaders is as follows:
Jim Thomas/Tri-State Redemption Center/812-473-5250
Bernard von NotHaus/NORFED/888-421-6181
FAX 812-473-5199
Postal address: 4900 Tippecanoe, Suite 6 / Evansville, IN 47715
Webpage: www.norfed.org.
NORFED has created something it calls “American Liberty Currency.” This consists of “silver certificates” in $1, $5, and $10 amounts. The $10 certificate is allegedly backed by one ounce of .999 pure Troy silver, and the other certificates backed proportionately. However, the silver itself is kept in a “warehouse” run by “Sunshine Minting.”
The current price of silver is only about $5.10 per troy ounce.
NORFED is also engaged in the creation of “a National Network of Redemption Centers.” The function of these centers is “to exchange Federal Reserve Notes for American Liberty Currency (warehouse receipts).” In other words, to take people’s dollars and give them this new “currency.” Redemption Centers can buy certificates from NORFED at a 10% discount, then provide them to others. Ostensibly, these centers will also exchange silver certificates for silver coins. The centers are also urged to recruit “members” and will get a portion of the membership fee.
What are the dangers of NORFED? The possibilities are endless. The first danger is that one will lose one’s money by basically exchanging it for half its value in silver (or, more accurately, silver certificates which are supposed to represent silver). The second danger is that there might be no actual silver at all, despite the “independent audits” that NORFED assures people will be conducted. In this case, people will be exchanging good money for worthless money. A third danger is that NORFED will be used as a warehouse bank, which is a way to hide money or financial transactions. There are many other potential problems as well, all of which cry out for careful scrutiny of NORFED and its operations.
One warning sign consists of some of the people and organizations who have so far signed up to be “Redemption Centers.” These include but are not limited to Charles Eidson, a Florida-based white supremacist who has been prominent in placing bogus liens and marketing abusive trusts; the Save-A-Patriot Fellowship, one of the largest tax protest groups in the country; and the Cascadian Resource Center, involved in various aspects of “paper terrorism,” including the marketing of abusive trusts. Even though NORFED has supposedly been in operation only since October 1, 1998, it has already amassed a large number of “Redemption Centers.” This could grow very quickly.
NORFED leader Bernard von NotHouse is “printmaster” for Royal Hawaiian Mint, a Honolulu-based numismatic dealer. Leader Jim Thomas is the founder of “Media Bypass” magazine, a magazine which caters to right-wing extremists. Coincidentally, the November issue of “Media Bypass” will feature an article on NORFED. “Sunshine Mint” is located in Hayden Lake, Idaho. The address associated with the domain name (from Internic) is a mailbox in a university bookstore in California. The mailing address for NORFED is the same as for Media Bypass.
The Militia Watchdog is not alleging that NORFED is currently engaging in any illegal activity. However, because of the clear potential for abuse now or in the future, it urges people to monitor NORFED and its activities very closely.
Didn’t the ADL also describe Free Republic as a right wing hate site?
Way to leave a word out....
Sorry, that was unintentional.
However, including functioning makes my point stronger, not weaker, so I fail to see what harm my mistake created.
They are claiming that it is legal and functional. They say that you should quit using US dollars and use it instead. Then later they say it isn't legal tender.
So they are saying the it should be treated like legal tender, and should replace legal tender, but then add the disclaimer that it isn't legal tender to try and keep from getting arrested for doing something they quite obviously know is illegal.
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