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To: yldstrk
As an Army JAG officer formerly on active duty, I kept records and prosecuted trainee abuse by DIs—it wasn’t funny and it wasn’t trainees being not tough—it was kids being in the clutches of the all powerful. The ones that got busted were the ones that were mean and cruel or the ones that were not too bright; we don’t need either kind in our forces.

Not surprising. What is surprising is how many on FR think getting found guilt of such charges by a jury of officers and enlisted still means this is some how about whiny girlie recruits. Of that because in the past we thought such abuses should slide mean cracking down on it is weakening the current military. The current military is doing a fine job over there right now and they were trained with modern methods that did not involve over the top abuse. Yeah, sure it was tougher 50 or 30 years ago. But 30 yeas of MARINES figured out how to train the corp as good or better without the over the top garbage. I the suggestion that training can't be done without abuse is insulting to all the men and women in the corps that WERE trained without abuse (or only a little and it is getting prosecuted). It is working. If anyone thinks the newer system is not working they have to think 99% of the current force is a bunch of wimps.
34 posted on 11/15/2007 7:07:21 AM PST by TalonDJ (Nano-meter = 22215ish)
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To: TalonDJ
I'll just leave my little thoughts about this.

Take it for what its worth.

The DI's are assigned tasks to perform with the boots. Depending on their commander and the quality of Marines that they produce determines if they accomplish their tasks.

Now if the commander allows a laxity in control of the DI's and they don't police themselves a "culture" develops. Most of the men on this board know what I mean.

Unable to do PT, the platoon falls out and does PT with you. Fail an inspection, toothbrushes and/or your nose to clean out the grout in the head. Cop an attitude, smart ass answer or just generally screw around. 6 miles jog in rain gear, sweats at high port with your weapon....and then fall down repeatedly or run into trees with your face until you get your mind right. ..... Go a couple of rounds with the pugil sticks with a real meat eater and 5 or 6 of his friends in order not to forget the reason your platoon's liberty wasn't given . and on and on.... the 'unwritten' rules and regs.

Most of the stuff is just put down as "do what you are supposed to do and move on, don't be a pussy."

If this DI went beyond the written as well as the unwritten code, well then he's going down. Probably deserves it. Cause in spite of what any old jarheads think, the Corps is still the f'ing United States Marine Corps. We tend to protect our own but will rarely tolerate any of our brothers or future Marines senselessly abused.(in spite of what is in the movies and news reports)

Anybody that thinks we got some weak sisters in the Corps due to "softer" training just has to look at what our brothers did in Fallujah. They did the deed, manned up and fought like warriors. God I was proud of them.

I can't speak for Army, Navy or Air Force basic training...... it might be tougher, stricter controls or different attitude, but USMC basic training is different, cause everybody from the cook to the trombone player in the band, to the Commander of USMC is a rifleman first and foremost, and that my friends is what sets us apart.

37 posted on 11/15/2007 8:03:18 AM PST by Dick Vomer (liberals suck....... but it depends on what your definition of the word "suck" is.,)
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To: TalonDJ

Repeated for truth:
“Not surprising. What is surprising is how many on FR think getting found guilt of such charges by a jury of officers and enlisted still means this is some how about whiny girlie recruits. Of that because in the past we thought such abuses should slide mean cracking down on it is weakening the current military. The current military is doing a fine job over there right now and they were trained with modern methods that did not involve over the top abuse. Yeah, sure it was tougher 50 or 30 years ago. But 30 yeas of MARINES figured out how to train the corp as good or better without the over the top garbage. I the suggestion that training can’t be done without abuse is insulting to all the men and women in the corps that WERE trained without abuse (or only a little and it is getting prosecuted). It is working. If anyone thinks the newer system is not working they have to think 99% of the current force is a bunch of wimps.”

TalonDJ has it exactly right. The training standards were developed by Marines for Marines, and the Court martial was by Marine officers and enlisted. Who are we to second-guess either? And I assure you, my friends, the Marines today are every bit as good as we were in our day. Be proud of them: the system is working as designed.

TC


39 posted on 11/15/2007 8:16:40 AM PST by Pentagon Leatherneck
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