Posted on 11/15/2007 5:41:34 AM PST by RDTF
As an Army JAG officer formerly on active duty, I kept records and prosecuted trainee abuse by DIs—it wasn’t funny and it wasn’t trainees being not tough—it was kids being in the clutches of the all powerful. The ones that got busted were the ones that were mean and cruel or the ones that were not too bright; we don’t need either kind in our forces.
Ping
got all that,and more,at Ft Knox
I did misery, heartbreak, and agony there, myself, in 1966 (C-10-5, IIRC)
That’s what I’m thinking... He would have had to have gone completely ‘round the bend with it. Otherwise, that kind of thing is what a potential recruit ought to expect in boot. If they can handle it, don’t sign up. It comes down to knowing what you’re getting into.
That's it? That is the extent of the "abuse?" In Marine boot camp? Are we talking about leave-a-mark kind of physical contact? Jeez, it's not like it was Air Force boot camp ... they are making Marines for gosh darn sakes.
Seems to me the military is dealing with internal discipline and training measures. No indication there is real heat from the WH or Congress.
Let them deal with it as they see fit.
So, are blanket parties discouraged too?
Where were you when I (and the rest of Echo 13/4) needed you at Ft Knox way back when? We were getting the tar beaten out of us by Sgt (insert name here).One guy (and I still remember his name) was ridden so hard by this clown that he went AWOL.With him it was truly a Hartman/Private Pyle kind of situation.I’ve always wondered what happened to that fellow recruit (we never saw him again).
??? Isn’t that par for the course at boot camp?”
I was going to post the same!
I was there in the winter of '69-'70 (graduated early January).That winter was declared to have been the coldest that northern Kentucky had seen in 50 years.Even this New England boy found it tough.
That must be why they placed "sharpshooters" up in those towers at the rifle range. ;-)
Now, being assigned to first duty post in the FMF in the days of open squad bays, shit, that was cruel and unusual for wogs...Don;t even get me started about becoming a shellback ;-)
Can you define mean and cruel. My purpose is not to make fun of you. However, there are Freepers who shrug this thread off and claim the recruits are babies. I am retired Navy and while boot camp was not that tough, it was something I did not want to do again. I never saw the CC as an enemy. I saw him as someone doing his job. There were other inspectors whom I thought were a-holes but not abusive or cruel. Just jerks. I do remember one E5 that grabbed me roughly because I was not rinsing out a swab the way he thought proper. Looking back on it, I figure the only reason he did that was because I was a boot. I do recognize the power over a person concept and how it can corrupt people. I just want to know what did these DI’s do that was cruel.
Of four drill instructors assigned to the 40-man platoon, Glass was the least experienced and the so-called "kill hat," Marine slang for the one assigned to mete out punishment. All four were relieved of duty when the abuse allegations surfaced.
The two most experienced face criminal charges, and the "third hat" was reduced from sergeant to corporal and is no longer a drill instructor. Two officers and two noncommissioned officers with supervisory responsibility for the four drill instructors were relieved of duty and reassigned.'
Take it for what its worth.
The DI's are assigned tasks to perform with the boots. Depending on their commander and the quality of Marines that they produce determines if they accomplish their tasks.
Now if the commander allows a laxity in control of the DI's and they don't police themselves a "culture" develops. Most of the men on this board know what I mean.
Unable to do PT, the platoon falls out and does PT with you. Fail an inspection, toothbrushes and/or your nose to clean out the grout in the head. Cop an attitude, smart ass answer or just generally screw around. 6 miles jog in rain gear, sweats at high port with your weapon....and then fall down repeatedly or run into trees with your face until you get your mind right. ..... Go a couple of rounds with the pugil sticks with a real meat eater and 5 or 6 of his friends in order not to forget the reason your platoon's liberty wasn't given . and on and on.... the 'unwritten' rules and regs.
Most of the stuff is just put down as "do what you are supposed to do and move on, don't be a pussy."
If this DI went beyond the written as well as the unwritten code, well then he's going down. Probably deserves it. Cause in spite of what any old jarheads think, the Corps is still the f'ing United States Marine Corps. We tend to protect our own but will rarely tolerate any of our brothers or future Marines senselessly abused.(in spite of what is in the movies and news reports)
Anybody that thinks we got some weak sisters in the Corps due to "softer" training just has to look at what our brothers did in Fallujah. They did the deed, manned up and fought like warriors. God I was proud of them.
I can't speak for Army, Navy or Air Force basic training...... it might be tougher, stricter controls or different attitude, but USMC basic training is different, cause everybody from the cook to the trombone player in the band, to the Commander of USMC is a rifleman first and foremost, and that my friends is what sets us apart.
My prior post was before I saw the tent pole incident, but like I said..... a culture develops and this one was getting nasty.
That said, I've seen guys that deserved a tent pole up side their heads and might have used that form of discipline myself for more serious types of offenses....... or maybe not.
Repeated for truth:
“Not surprising. What is surprising is how many on FR think getting found guilt of such charges by a jury of officers and enlisted still means this is some how about whiny girlie recruits. Of that because in the past we thought such abuses should slide mean cracking down on it is weakening the current military. The current military is doing a fine job over there right now and they were trained with modern methods that did not involve over the top abuse. Yeah, sure it was tougher 50 or 30 years ago. But 30 yeas of MARINES figured out how to train the corp as good or better without the over the top garbage. I the suggestion that training can’t be done without abuse is insulting to all the men and women in the corps that WERE trained without abuse (or only a little and it is getting prosecuted). It is working. If anyone thinks the newer system is not working they have to think 99% of the current force is a bunch of wimps.”
TalonDJ has it exactly right. The training standards were developed by Marines for Marines, and the Court martial was by Marine officers and enlisted. Who are we to second-guess either? And I assure you, my friends, the Marines today are every bit as good as we were in our day. Be proud of them: the system is working as designed.
TC
Whatever happened, happened. But these guys seem like they formed a brotherhood.
http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,155799,00.html
Lance Cpl. Sean Fitzgerald recounted for jurors how platoon members began trying to break open one recruit’s foot locker after Glass began hitting the trainee over the head with a tent pole for forgetting the code for the combination lock.
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