Replies

”Not lift a finger in its defense? I swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution and have done so during wartime.”

Whatever differences we may entertain, I thank you for your service.

Also, as we both well know, the above is not the context in which I raised the issue.

”Were BB’s quotes accurate this time, or just invented quotes again?”

In the first place I don’t accept your premise sans detailed documentation. In the second place you may see for yourself in Farrand’s Records, Volume 1, Madison’s notes, Thursday, June 28th, In Convention, the relevant passage beginning on page 451. Or, if that’s too arduous, see my msg 221 in Intelligent Design, and Other Dumb Ideas.

I took js####’s word that this was a recreation after the fact and that Madison discounted its legitimacy. I did no research on the subject myself. I apologize to bb for accepting js##’s word over hers without looking into it myself.

But speaking of providence and a Creator and paraphrasing the Bible would (as I originally stated) not in any way be contradictory to Ben Franklin’s philosophy which was, according to the same autobiography which mentioned ‘Divine providence’ the philosophy of a “thorough Deist”.

So as I pointed out to bb, I wouldn’t go about quoting Franklin (or Thomas Jefferson) as supporting evidence for the notion that the founding principles of this nation were Christian to its core.

I reject your premise that I would not lift a finger to defend the Constitution in any context. When someone on FR says “the Constitution doesn’t mention Science” I would post Article 1, section 8, line 8.

Among the very limited mandates and enumerated powers given to the federal government in the Constitution is the mandate to promote the arts and Sciences, the necessity of a well regulated militia, and promotion of the general welfare; and the enumerated powers and restrictions given to the Federal Government for this were exclusive rights, a provision against infringement on the natural right to bear arms, and the included enumerated powers for promotion of the general welfare.

Just as I would not take a statement from a Conservative that the Constitution has a mandate to ‘promote the general welfare’ to mean they thought the government had unlimited power to carry out this mandate; neither would I take the statement that the Constitution has a mandate to ‘promote the arts and Sciences’ as meaning that the government had unlimited power to carry out that mandate.

I believe in specific and enumerated powers, and the clear meaning of the language of the Constitution (such that ‘public use’ denotes actual public use, and not ‘any conceivable public benefit’; and ‘the rights of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed’ to mean that our right to be armed shall not be infringed).