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To: Stoat
"Explain this part to me. Every patient in the USA already ---properly---- has a right to refuse any surgery, mediction, therapy, or any other intervention to extend life 'beyond where it should naturally end.'"

I had meant this in reference to Popocatapetl's message at #9 about going to Mexico in a terminal situation to avoid burdensome treatments. I was not writing specifically of Switzerland --- though it's hard for me to imagine that Switzerland would not similarly recognize the patient's right to refuse burdensome, futile treatments.

I am not in the least an advocate of strictly autonomous, do-it-yourself suicide; I was just suggesting that it's less harmful than manipulating the assistance of the whole medico-legal complex and thereby rapidly accelerating the final collapse of medical and legal ethics.

There are all kinds of internet "resources" for suicide methods one can self-administer which are suppose to be swift, painless, and certain. I will not go into further detail because I do not care to promote them in any way.

Larger point: there is no reason for any terminally ill person in the 21st century to die in pain. Even 25 years ago Dr. Jose Espinosa, a gerontologist from Spain, was saying that he had never encountered "intractable" pain in many decades of ministering to terminal patients --- although, as he said, he had encountered "intractable doctors and nurses."

And medication to address pain and discomfort and even depression is a whole lot better now than it was even 25 years ago. That's what people should be demanding: excellent, state-of-the-art palliative care. And not a legally-legitimated lethal overdose, which will start off being an "option," progress to being a "right," and quickly morph into a "duty" which will be imposed on the frail, the politically disfavored and the disabled without mercy.

40 posted on 11/11/2007 5:11:52 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("Pray (Pray!) Oh yes we pray (Pray!) - We've got to pray just to make it today." ---- MC Hammer)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
There are all kinds of internet "resources" for suicide methods one can self-administer which are suppose to be swift, painless, and certain.

That may well be true, but I have not seen this as a real-world reality of what most people actually do.

Desperately unhappy and / or gravely sick people typically don't spend a lot of time researching on the internet in my experience, but that's just me.

there is no reason for any terminally ill person in the 21st century to die in pain

Again, I regret that this is at variance with my experience after over two decades in prehospital emergency medicine and considerable contact with hospice nurses and end-of life scenarios.

However, your experience may be different and I certainly don't pretend to be an expert on death..

41 posted on 11/11/2007 6:21:23 PM PST by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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