Posted on 11/08/2007 3:09:12 AM PST by rollingthunder2006
How liberating childhood initially seemed to those of us bred without religious instruction. We never had to attend catechism classes or miss a single National Football League game on Sunday. There seemed to be little more to the universe than our parents’ rules and edicts, yet gradually, after adolescence, it became more and more apparent that another world—one within and above the realm of our daily affairs—existed. One in which right and wrong were more than legal constructs.
It was at this moment that we fathomed the dimensions of our inner-void. The wisdom and guidance of the Bible are an invaluable framework within which to interpret human relationships and the rigors of life. As adults, untold numbers of the parochially deprived come to look at The Good Book with both a feeling of respect and loss.
Perhaps it was with the spiritually challenged in mind that Dinesh D’Souza penned What’s So Great About Christianity. The title of his recent release is in keeping with a previous work in which the author outlined the positive aspects of America. In these new chapters, D’Souza eloquently and convincingly defends Christianity along with religion on the whole.
(Excerpt) Read more at mensnewsdaily.com ...
“Atheists are not content to have honest discourse on this subject. Many of them are housed in our universities and see it as their role to imbue the young with their anti-faith. Given the actions of pseudo-scholar activists, over the course of the last few decades, this is wholly expected. Indeed, Richard Rorty admitted just such a rationale when he said that it was appropriate for students who came to college as “bigoted, homophobic religious fundamentalists” to leave with views in keeping with those held by their professors.”
Good article.
Probably because they're too preoccupied with worrying about when the rapture will happen, instead of God's mandate for societal transformation.
Looks like a good book!
Yes, and why is that not just as unconstitutional as using public resources to encourage religion?
the happy Atheist is pretending all is well on the home front! What exist between islam and Christianity.
bookmark
How many vacuous, touchy-feely, services does that phrase resuscitate? It further explains why the “do your own thing” message of the Episcopalian and Presbyterian churches have led to the melting away of their congregations. An unserious and flighty God is a fiction, but also one of no service to humanity.
Amen.
See my tagline. Preach it! All twelve spies worked from the same data set. 10 saw in the data God's intention to destroy them. Two (Caleb and Joshua) saw opportunities for greatness. "These foes are BREAD for us!"
God's sure judgment awaits those who undermine His beloved people with apocalyptic ravings.
Those who claim the Name but remain the same.
rollingthunder2006 wrote:
What’s so great about D’Souza? Well, the fact is most Christians are nothing like him. They are not “contenders” of their faith. They live their lives and that’s about it. They reside in the world but refuse to be of it. Believers tend to look at our culture as if it were a tornado which will soon pass by and hopefully leave them unscarred.
. x . x . x .
ovrtaxt wrote:
Probably because they’re too preoccupied with worrying about when the rapture will happen, instead of God’s mandate for societal transformation.
Looks like a good book!
. x . x . x .
The real reason(s) Christians are failing are:
(1) Although they must participate boldly in politics and other social institutions and defend biblical values throughout society, you can’t order and “fix” a culture from the top down via human institutions;
(2) The nation and world can only be transformed by Christians obeying Christ and fulfilling his Great Commission by taking His gospel to everyone, that they may hear the Word and be converted by the Holy Spirit, according to God’s economy;
(3) Neither the Great Commission nor any other work done on behalf of our Savior can be accomplished if individual Christians themselves are not being further and continuously transformed more into the likeness of Christ. It’s only the power of God that motivates us and gives us wisdom and energy to spread the gospel and love and serve other people.
Until Christ returns, His church will always be a remnant among mankind, but it must be a faithful and hardworking remnant. And placing politics before the Great Commission helps ensure the failure of both.
If you want to help the world, then “seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be provided to you as well.” (Matthew 6:33)
Praise God and glorify him in your life and love your neighbor as yourself, and you will transform the world. This is not abandonment theology. It’s not ignoring politics. It’s merely making sure you don’t put the cart before the horse.
I have to disagree. I believe both approaches are necessary if we’re going to make a lasting difference.
If Wilberforce believed that all he had to do was get people saved, we might still have slavery in Europe.
“These foes are BREAD for us!”
That’s one of my favorite scriptures!
RJR fan, I saw Rushdoony years ago at a conference. He was pretty neat to listen to. I’m more of a Chilton fan myself though, and I especially love Paradise Restored. It was a foundational book in my early discipleship. :)
By the way, here’s a link you might be interested in:
http://www.christian.tv/index.php?module=ctv&action=mediaCenter&cid=39
and click on the “Seven Mountains” video.
Also, you might be encouraged to know that the New Apostolic movement, primarily spearheaded by C. Peter Wagner, is adopting a Dominion approach to the end times. The Left Behinders are being left out.
I can dig it. One of the most hopeful trends in contemporary American Christianity -- after the explosion in home education -- is the charismatic movement's discovery of Calvinism. The most influential pastors in the missions-minded new denomination Every Nation International were educated at Reformed Theological Seminary. My son's pastor took classes with Rice Broocke, and noted how he quietly sat in the back of the class, taking copious notes, keeping a low profile while the other younger preacher-boys tried to impress the professor. Rice was responsible for dozens of churches at that time.
ovrtaxt wrote:
I have to disagree. I believe both approaches are necessary if we’re going to make a lasting difference.
If Wilberforce believed that all he had to do was get people saved, we might still have slavery in Europe.
. x . x . x .
Somehow you managed to read my post without reading it.
Try again and you might catch comments such as the very first point I made: (I add emphasis below)
“(1) Although THEY MUST PARTICIPATE BOLDLY IN POLITICS and other social institutions and defend biblical values throughout society, you can’t order and “fix” a culture from the top down via human institutions;”
or how about . . .
“. . . placing politics BEFORE the Great Commission helps ensure the failure of both.”
or
“Praise God and glorify him in your life and love your neighbor as yourself, and you will transform the world. THIS IS NOT ABANDONMENT THEOLOGY. IT’S NOT IGNORING POLITICS. It’s merely making sure you don’t put the cart before the horse.”
So I said that Christians “must participate boldly in politics” but must also lead with the gospel.
You respond with the implication that I advocate Christians shouldn’t particpate in politics.
??????????????????????????????????
Meanwhile, you’re assuming that I advocate an abandonment of evangelism. Not at all. Getting people saved on an individual level is a natural result of the overtaking of human institutions. It all happens at once.
This is why Charles Martel targeted the kings and leaders of pagan tribes. He knew that if the king got saved, the rest of the nation would follow. God honors authority structures, and spiritual leverage was granted among the king’s subjects. Salvations were easier under such an atmosphere.
Like I said, you need both approaches. Case in point, the Welsh revival of 1904. Almost total domination of the culture by conversion, and almost no penetration of the underlying societal structures. Now look at Wales today- one of the lowest rates of salvation in the Western world. It illustrates the long term results of a people who refuse to take leadership and enforce the kingdom from the top down.
Third example- Hollywood. You claim that you can’t order a fix from the top down, but this is exactly how the devil structures his authority. Look at the resistance to the Passion. They would have effectively stopped it, had Gibson not used his own personal money to sidestep the control freak producers. Now, all they see is the $650 mil that they missed out on, so the logjam has been broken for movies that celebrate faith- and Christians are entering the ranks of movie producers. They will order fixes, and they will have influence.
So we agree, I suppose, in practice. The difference is in the assumption of the results. I refuse to expect the loss of society to the enemy- Jesus told us to take it. It’s ours, not satan’s.
I never said that. And I never said that because I never assumed that. But people don't get saved to Christ by human institutions. People are not even saved by Christians. They are saved by the Holy Spirit after hearing the gospel. At least, that's the message of the Bible.
This is why Charles Martel targeted the kings and leaders of pagan tribes. He knew that if the king got saved, the rest of the nation would follow. God honors authority structures, and spiritual leverage was granted among the king’s subjects. Salvations were easier under such an atmosphere.
Like I said, you need both approaches. Case in point, the Welsh revival of 1904. Almost total domination of the culture by conversion, and almost no penetration of the underlying societal structures. Now look at Wales today- one of the lowest rates of salvation in the Western world. It illustrates the long term results of a people who refuse to take leadership and enforce the kingdom from the top down.
Like I said in my last post, stop misrepresenting what I said. I have posted multiple times now, including in my first post, before you ever commented, that CHRISTIAN MUST PARTICIPATE BOLDLY IN POLITICS AND SOCIAL INSTITUTIONS AND PROTECT BIBLICAL VALUES. Obviously, I had stated that both ways are necessary long before you said it. My entire point was about prioritization. Jesus says to seek his kingdom and righteousness FIRST and the rest will follow.
Stop setting up strawmen arguments by arguing against things completely opposite to what I have said.
Third example- Hollywood. You claim that you can’t order a fix from the top down, but this is exactly how the devil structures his authority. Look at the resistance to the Passion. They would have effectively stopped it, had Gibson not used his own personal money to sidestep the control freak producers. Now, all they see is the $650 mil that they missed out on, so the logjam has been broken for movies that celebrate faith- and Christians are entering the ranks of movie producers. They will order fixes, and they will have influence.
I wouldn't use the devil as an good example to people on how to structure a society. Everything that he does is intended to destroy human beings and defy God.
The bible consistently talks about us -- as individual stones -- being used to build up a holy structure -- with Jesus as the cornerstone. That applies to the church in this life and the next -- and also to everything in this world. It's why a faithful remnant in the Church today is vital. Bottom up means: If you're working in concern God to spread the gospel and change human hearts (e.g., seeking the kingdom), then your work on society will bear fruit.
Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot all used the "top down" model and it didn't work. Jesus wants changed hearts, not people hammered as square pegs into round holes from above. If their hearts are transformed into round pegs, they'll fall into the round holes naturally because they will want to.
In fact, Christian leaders throughout the ages have understood that gospel heart-changing leads societal transformation. That is why we have our form of government -- to keep powers separated in the different branches of govt so that the gospel has a safe, peaceful environment in which to be spread (and change hearts).
That is why from the Protestant Reformation onward, there had been such an emphasis on literacy -- because in a sola scriptura worldview, every individual must be able to read the bible for himself and interpret it via a mind enlightened by the Holy Spirit.
The Apostle Paul -- one of the greatest enemies ever of the Christian church -- was transformed by God and not through top-down ordering. Same with Jesus' brother James. And St. Augustine. And Luther was converted to "grace only" while the top-down system of the Roman Catholic Church was trying to keep people hammered into a different theological tradition.
So we agree, I suppose, in practice. The difference is in the assumption of the results. I refuse to expect the loss of society to the enemy- Jesus told us to take it. It’s ours, not satan’s.
And for the umpteenth time, I never said lose the society to the enemy. Please stop confusing a prioritization of A over B with a choice between A and B. I've only been talking prioritization and not choice.
Besides, that prioritization wasn't my idea. It was Jesus' idea. Go argue with him. "Seek first the Kingdom of God, etc."
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