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To: steel_resolve
The U.S has spent trillions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of American lives ensuring peace and prosperity around the world.

And China, along with many other countries is experiencing the peace and prosperity. And siezing the opportunity provided them by the WTO. Is the succcess and prosperity only reserved for a few select countries?

When we were the first to have nuclear weapons, did we use them to subjugate the world? No. Do we, as the world's only superpower, seek to control the world for our own gain?

Last I checked, China hasn't launched a nuclear attack. They also could potentially build more if they wanted to, but haven't. They haven't used their nuclear leverage against countries that don't have them.

No. All you need to do is ask yourself what would China do if they became the world's strongest power tomorrow?

Before I answer that, under what condition would you graciously accept China to become the strongest power in the world? Is it never? Then what more is there to talk about if that is true.

I could go on and question your motives for responding to such an old thread, or why you seem to be so pro-China, willing to sweep every Chinese indescretion under the rug.

I don't sweep every Chinese indescretion under the rug. You want to talk about human rights, democracy, environment there, then lets talk. There are many human rights and religous groups busy confronting China on many issues. They don't bother me. It's the Hawks that bother me. They want to tie everything (and I mean everything) to China's rise and growing global influence. That is what bothers me.

Take Africa for example. There are human rights groups that want China to use her INFLUENCE to confront the genocide there. The Hawks just want to raise the issue of the genocide to get China out of Africa. I'm not so sure they're (the Hawks) are so concerned about the genocide there. It (the genocide in Sudan) wasn't on their (the Hawks) radar until China showed up. But for religous and human rights groups, they've been pounding on the doors of congress for years to do something about it. The various religious and human rights groups aren't concerned about China's rise as they are about helping Africa. The Hawks aren't concerned about Africa, but rather, China's rise.

You want to make China a better place and confront what's bad there. Be my guest. But if your goal is nothing more than prevent the rise of China and keep them an agrarian society, then I'll speak up. So far, everything the Hawks talk about lead to that goal (containing China).

The bottom line is this, I want to see the Chinese people become a technologically advance and industrialized people. As result of going through the process of bringing 1.3 billion people into the 21st century, they will become a world super power. There's no way around that. So, any opposition to China's rise, is an opposition to the betterment of the average Chinese citizen.

Every once in awhile, I see a bumper sticker that says "Freedom isn't Free". True enough, there's a financial cost and human cost to military confrontation. But is freedom only brought about through military confrontation? Can it be brought about with the growing prosperity of others? Or is that prosperity only reserved for Americans and her few favorite allies.

I wonder sometimes, even if China met the expectations of a benign democracy, if those with a Hawkish view of China would accept China rise to super power status. Actually, I don't wonder, I already know the answer.

12 posted on 11/06/2007 2:57:13 PM PST by ponder life
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To: ponder life
Is the succcess and prosperity only reserved for a few select countries?

Prosperity is extended to every country. But China wants more than prosperity. China ruled the world once. It is my belief that they want to again. Their rush toward superpower status is undisciplined, morally corrupt and frankly bothering people who hear one thing out of PRC official's mouths and then see them blow up a satellite or crush a pro democracy meeting or harvest organs out of healthy Falun Gong prisoners. Like I said before, don't even try and talk moral equivalence with me vis-a-vis China.

Last I checked, China hasn't launched a nuclear attack. They also could potentially build more if they wanted to, but haven't. They haven't used their nuclear leverage against countries that don't have them.

Top Chinese general warns US over attack - http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/28cfe55a-f4a7-11d9-9dd1-00000e2511c8.html

China is prepared to use nuclear weapons against the US if it is attacked by Washington during a confrontation over Taiwan, a Chinese general said on Thursday.

“If the Americans draw their missiles and position-guided ammunition on to the target zone on China's territory, I think we will have to respond with nuclear weapons,” said General Zhu Chenghu.

You were saying?

Before I answer that, under what condition would you graciously accept China to become the strongest power in the world? Is it never? Then what more is there to talk about if that is true.

You're missing the point - I'll put it another way: If China could take Taiwan tomorrow, by virtue of being the world's strongest power, they would in a heartbeat, not caring how many they killed or injured. The only thing that matters to the PRC is bringing Taiwan to heel. And they wouldn't stop there.

The Hawks just want to raise the issue of the genocide to get China out of Africa. So, any opposition to China's rise, is an opposition to the betterment of the average Chinese citizen.

I am opposed to the way China is rising - with a single minded train of thought to breakneck development. Perhaps you don't care that China is destroying their environment, crushing dissent, sabre rattling, etc. etc. ETC. BUT I DO. If that makes me a hawk, restricting China's rise in your eyes, then so be it.
13 posted on 11/06/2007 6:03:41 PM PST by steel_resolve (Think pitch forks.)
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