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Yes, exactly! However, not everyone believes that a fetus is a somebody I happen to believe it and you I'm assuming you do as well. But here's the rub, not everyone believes the same as you and I and we have to deal with that reality or we get nowhere. And our (well, not mine) efforts to use government to dictate behavioral change becomes just as off-putting as their efforts to be selfish and/or in denial.

They are murderers, not poor misunderstood people that made a little mistake.

Well, I know that you believe that homosexuality and abortion are two things that we should not be tolerant of and that both plague our society. I'll agree on one of those with you but I certainly do not see homosexuality, by itself, as a behavior we should seek to become intolerant of.

True as far as abortion goes as it is murder. I'm in favor of punishing all murderers and I would never suggest we become tolerant of murderers.

By the way, do you advocate for adoption and for providing financial incentives to mothers of the unborn who contemplate abortion? More so than your advocacy in deriding homosexuality, say?

Why would I answer any questions concerning my advocacy when you feel so free to simply make up things about me whole cloth. Provide a quote where I have derided homosexuality. I think it's an unhealthy choice but it's not an important issue to me nor do I think that there is a government solution.

Let's be real clear here...no one is talking about children that have already healthily exited the womb. The issue here is that some women do not view the life of a fetus as a living child or they are too selfish to admit to or acknowledge that there is life.

Their excuses for their behavior are simply excuses. If a child is born 3 months premature via c-section then your hypothetical doesn't exist. If the mother went into the incubator and smothered her baby she would be charged with murder. If the same woman had gotten an abortion the day before she would be practicing "choice". The illogic and lack of protection to the child based on simply being inside or outside of the body is sophistry.

Yes, piousness, toward homosexuals, in fact.

Prove it or stop saying it.

Both. Don't we all post so that the interactive experience is shared and discussion can evolve by many participants? I know that that's one of the reasons I post.

I try to respond directly to the poster that I am conversing with otherwise I may accuse them of something they never wrote.

I've covered this above but forcing them to submit to beliefs that you and I happen to share when the area is a very gray one to many, is not a concept of liberty either.

This isn't a "belief" it's simple reality. There are serial killers that don't see anything wrong with killing others. We don't say "the poor dear just has differing beliefs from us", we say "The person is obviously nuts, lock them up and throw away the key".

And you're assuming that there are no consequences for deciding to abort? Don't you believe in Judgment Day?

That is exactly what I am assuming as I am Agnostic. Were I a believer I fail to see how it would make any difference as the concept you outline would cover any and all crimes. We have a justice system that punishes people here and now. We don't leave it to the afterlife.

No, it does not. Liberty comes with consequences for making inappropriate decisions, not cooperating with others, and for intruding on the liberty of others. Consequences for your actions is a good definition of responsibility.