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To: Colofornian
Can you point us to any elements of Mormon theology which Romney attempted to impose in Massachusetts while he was governor?

I can think of no other way in which his Mormonism would be relevant in the Presidential primaries.

74 posted on 10/29/2007 9:52:54 AM PDT by Notary Sojac ("If it ain't broken, fix it 'till it is" - Congress)
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To: Notary Sojac
I can think of no other way in which his Mormonism would be relevant in the Presidential primaries.

I'm going to address your comments in two responses, starting with your last comment first:

For a proper backdrop on this response, see post #79. So, let's say Mitt is in the Benson-Kimball camp, which is standard LDS theology...Actually, let's go in a complete reverse direction: Let's take away every presidential candidate's faith structure for a moment. Let's say we didn't know any of their beliefs or to what church or spiritual affinity they belonged, adhered to.

Let's say at an open forum a new candidate named Joe Jones was in the midst. And I asked him the question, "What is your belief about God?" and he answered, "I believe I will be a god someday."

Wouldn't that cause you or anyone else to pause just for a moment? I mean, first of all, how often do you get to meet an alleged "future god?"; Secondly, you begin to wonder about the mental make-up of this candidate if he takes this thought quite seriously...I mean that's a horse of a different color than thoughts about the Virgin Mary.

Additionally, I would think if this guy thinks he's actually about to graduate into godhood, what kind of power pulsating through his veins will reign during his presidency? Man, that's October Scary. (And that is also a big diff between, say, a Senator or Gov. and POTUS of the most powerful country in the world)

108 posted on 10/29/2007 10:47:11 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Notary Sojac
Can you point us to any elements of Mormon theology which Romney attempted to impose in Massachusetts while he was governor?

Yes. But this is also a "set-up" question.

Take a look at all of the Christian presidents in U.S. history and then ask your question. "Can you point us to any elements of Christian theology in which these presidents attempted to impose on U.S. citizens while in office?"

Clever. You asked a question already set up/designed to get a "no" response. Now, change one little word in your question as applied to U.S. Presidents (at least some of them) & you might get a different response: "Can you point us to any elements of Christian theology in which these presents attempted to expose on U.S. citizens while in office?"

The answer to this question is "yes." Yes, Teddy Roosevelt "exposed" his Christian faith and beliefs while in office (as has others).

So let me deal with your question by first asking it slightly reworded, and then I'll deal with the original question as is:

Can you point us to any elements of Mormon theology which Romney attempted to EXpose in Massachusetts while he was governor? [And the extended question by virtue of the multiplied visibility and power, How pronounced would this be when it comes to THE POTUS?]

All we have to do is to look at one real recent prez and one hypothetical prez: Bill Clinton was a presidential role-model disaster for our young generation re: the scandal. Any president the voting block elevates to the highest role model position in our land accords the highest vote of respectability to the public aspects of what that person stands for. If that person, for example, is a neatly tucked-away communist who's adopted a mask of "family values," & we elect him president, we are telling our kids that communism is OK to emulate. Furthermore, we are handing proselytizing fuel to communists everywhere. It would fuel their door-to-door boldness and other aggressive campaigns to be able to say, "See. Our respectable Communist leader holds the highest office in the land. Come study what helped make the man he is today!"

Now for your direction question "as is": Can you point us to any elements of Mormon theology which Romney attempted to impose in Massachusetts while he was governor?

Yes. I believe that a person can make a case for Romney's gumby positions just on the fact that by doing so, he's exhibiting himself to be a "traditional Mormon leader."

First of all, what do I mean by his "gumby" positions?

Romney was against legal fake marriage ("gay marriage") while being for legal fake marriage (civil unions and dometic partnerships).

Romney underwent a pro-life "conversion" in Nov 04 only to be forcefully "pro-choice" at a press conference in May 05.

In '94 in 2 back-to-back sentences, Romney spoke about the rights of the Boy Scouts of America to determine its own policy, and in the very next breath say that the Boy Scouts should be open to people of any "sexual orientation."

Romney was twice endorsed by the Log Cabin Club of MA only now to have ads run against him by the Log Cabin Club. Romney was in favor of the Employment Non-Discrimination Act before he was 'agin' it.

Romney came alongside Catholic social services to help them keep homosexuals from adopting thru their agency before telling them that "No...can't help you."

Romney was in favor of embryonic stem cell research and then underwent a "conversion." He was in favor of Roe until he was against it.

Hey, you take enough stances...then if you really do twist the apostle Paul's words as "being all things to all men" in this manner, you, too, can be a political gumby!

Now, how may have the evolution of Mormon theology influenced the evolution of Romney's theologically laced social stances?

Well, one only needs to review LDS history:

Example 1: The Book of Mormon was anti-polygamy; but then its original prophet WAS a polygamist (along with many to follow); but then the LDS church cracked down on polygamy; but then polygamy is still supposedly being practiced forever in the celestial kingdom (IOW, "right now"--as much as "eternity" can be "now").

Example 2: LDS said black skin was a "curse" and prevented blacks from the priesthood. Then they changed their mind in 1978.

Example 3: LDS were largely anti-slavery in history. But then you get curious pro-slave owner "Scriptural" passages like Doctrine & Covenants 134:12.

Example 4: Except for the doctrine of grace and some others, just about all of the major distinctions between LDS & the historic Christian faith doesn't even come from the Book of Mormon. What that means is that LDS theology itself "evolved" (one God in BoM; multiple gods later...no priesthood in BoM; priesthood later; no created God in BoM; LDS god a created God later; no 3 degrees of heaven in BoM; 3 degrees later; no baptism for dead or geneology works or temple works in BoM; all of that later...I could on and on)

Example 5: LDS position on abortion. If you read the LDS position on abortion (particularly the one I've seen written for LDS bishops), it initially comes across as "pro-life." But as you read it carefully, you realize that the holes in this cheese makes you ask, "Where's the cheese?"

I mean there's an exception for rape. An exception for generic "health." (And guess who gets to define "health"?--that's right, the abortionist). An exception for if you pray to God about it and then you make God an accessory to murder by saying, "He answered 'Yes'." An exception for life of the mother...

Conclusion: When folks point to Gumby Romney waffling on this or that, I guess I have to ask, "What's the big deal?" (That's what LDS leaders have done from the get-go)

118 posted on 10/29/2007 11:17:27 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Notary Sojac

It is extremely relevant to bigots who don’t want Mormons to be seen as normal, successful, Christian-living people or our church to be seen as an acceptable part of society. How can they marginalize us and spread their bigotry if Mitt is is a living example of how wrong they are?


237 posted on 10/29/2007 4:17:34 PM PDT by Grig
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To: Notary Sojac

“I can think of no other way in which his Mormonism would be relevant in the Presidential primaries.”

Other than the fact that when founder Joseph Smith was running for president and tried to suppress the press (for among other things questioning his man-God proclivities and grifter ways) it led to a state of near civil-war and the eventual execution of Smith by a mob, who feared he was starting a theocracy complete with a secretive Danite society. Why other than that, polygamy, God on Kolob, blood atonement, secret handshakes and Temple rights, plus beliefs based on revelations and seer stones and Egyptian hieroglyphics, I can’t think of a single reason to wonder about the relevance of Mormonism to the stability of a presidential candidate.


293 posted on 10/30/2007 12:35:47 AM PDT by FastCoyote
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