Wasn't it you that said that a person's actual record is the paramount qualifier? But now you've quoted a bunch of things that Mitt Romney has SAID, not his actual record of governance - as it specifically relates to abortion - as Governor of Massachusetts. And even now you promised to reveal Mitt's actual record, yet all you could produce were cherry-picked quotes he may have made one time or another.
Let's look at some of his actual record on Abortion and other information regarding his stance on the issue:
Governor Romney was presented with legislation concerning life issues on several occasions from the 85% majority Democrat Legislature in Massachusetts. In every instance he took the pro-life position by vetoing bills or lobbying for the pro-life approach, including the following actions:He vetoed the bill providing state funding for human embryonic stem cell researchGovernor Romney: "Times of decision are moments of great clarity. Before I was Governor, the life issue was just that, an issue. But when responsibility for life or ending life was placed in my hands, I made the right decision. I chose life."
(Theo Emery, "Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney Vetoes Stem Cell Bill," The Associated Press, 5/27/05)He vetoed a bill that provided for the "morning after pill" without a prescription because it is an abortifacient and would have been available to minors without parental notification and consent
(Governor Mitt Romney, Op-Ed, "Why I Vetoed The Contraception Bill," The Boston Globe, 7/26/05)He vetoed legislation which would have redefined Massachusetts longstanding definition of the beginning of human life from fertilization to implantation
(Governor Mitt Romney, Letter To The Massachusetts State Senate And House Of Representatives, 5/12/05)He supported parental notification laws and opposed efforts to weaken parental involvement
(John McElhenny, "O'Brien And Romney Spar In Last Debate Before Election," The Associated Press, 10/29/02)He fought to promote abstinence education in public school classrooms with a program offered by faith-based Boston group Healthy Futures to middle school students. Gov. Romney's administration was the first in Massachusetts to use federal abstinence education funds for classroom programs.
(Office Of Governor Mitt Romney, Romney Announces Award of Abstinence Education Contract, April 20, 2006)
(Governor Mitt Romney's Remarks At The National Right To Life Convention Forum, June 15, 2007)Eight prominent leaders of pro-life and pro-family groups in Massachusetts wrote an open letter praising Gov. Romney for his leadership and accomplishments in these important issues and attesting to his commitment to the pro-life and pro-family causes. (This letter is a MUST READ)
Massachusetts Citizens for Life recently gave Gov. Romney their 2007 Mullins Award for Outstanding Political Leadership presented at the Mother's Day Pioneer Valley Dinner where Romney delivered the keynote speech.
Ann Romney serves as co-chairman of the Massachusetts Citizens for Life capital campaign.
Massachusetts Citizens For Life Executive Director Marie Sturgis: "Having Governor Romney in the corner office for the last four years has been one of the strongest assets the pro-life movement has had in Massachusetts."
(Kathryn Jean Lopez, "An Early Massachusetts Primary," National Review, 1/10/07)Massachusetts Citizens For Life Pioneer Valley Chapter Chairman Kevin Jourdain: "Mitt Romney was a great Governor, who served with honor and distinction. But most importantly, he was a pro-life Governor. He vetoed a number of pro-abortion pieces of legislation and made many pro-life appointments. He was always there for us."
(Kevin Jourdain, Remarks, Agawam, MA, 5/10/07)Governor Romney has received the important endorsement of James Bopp, Jr., a nationally-known attorney and leading advocate for the pro-life movement. Jim Bopp reviewed Romney's record as Governor and questioned him personally before giving Romney his endorsement. Bopp most recently joined the Romney Presidential campaign as a special adviser on life issues, an unpaid position.
Bopp wrote about the record of Gov. Romney,
"These actions as governor have lead leaders of the most important social conservative groups in Massachusetts, including Massachusetts Citizens for Life, Massachusetts Family Institute, and the Knights of Columbus, to observe that, while previous comments by Romney “are, taken by themselves, obviously worrisome to social conservatives including ourselves, they do not dovetail with the actions of Governor Romney from 2003 until now — and those actions positively and demonstrably impacted the social climate of Massachusetts.” They conclude that Romney “demonstrat[ed] [his] solid social conservative credentials by undertaking” these actions, and has therefore “proven that he shares our values, as well as our determination to protect them.”Governor Romney believes Roe v. Wade should be overturned as a first step, allowing the States to set abortion policy, as a goal that can be achieved more quickly. For a longer range goal after overturning Roe v. Wade, he supports a Human Life Amendment to the Constitution and endorses legislation to make it clear that the 14th Amendment's protections apply to unborn children.
(The Best Choice Is Also a Good Choice - Why social conservatives should support Mitt Romney for president, National Review Online, Feb. 21, 2007)Romney believes that controversial abortion policy should be decided through the democratic process by citizens in the several states and their elected representatives rather than by federal judicial mandate.
Governor Romney: "I understand that my views on laws governing abortion set me in the minority in our Commonwealth. I am prolife. I believe that abortion is the wrong choice except in cases of incest, rape, and to save the life of the mother. I wish the people of America agreed, and that the laws of our nation could reflect that view. But while the nation remains so divided over abortion, I believe that the states, through the democratic process, should determine their own abortion laws and not have them dictated by judicial mandate."
("Why I vetoed contraception bill", Boston Globe Op-Ed, July 26, 2005)Gov. Romney Praised The Decision Upholding A Partial-Birth Abortion Ban. "Today, our nation's highest court reaffirmed the value of life in America by upholding a ban on a practice that offends basic human decency. This decision represents a step forward in protecting the weakest and most innocent among us."
(Gov. Mitt Romney, "Statement On Supreme Court's Partial Birth Abortion Ruling," Press Release, 4/18/07)View video of a portion of a speech delivered by Mitt Romney at the National Review Institute Conservative Summit in which he describes a pivotal event in his life while learning about stem cell research and embryo farming from Harvard research scientists. From a researcher's comment explaining that there wasn't a moral issue at stake in the embryo farming process because the embryos are destroyed after 14 days, Romney was hit hard by the harsh realization that, in his words, "We have so cheapened the value and sanctity of human life in our society that someone could think there is not a moral issue because we kill human embryos at 14 days." Gov. Romney publicly affirmed his pro-life position thereafter.
Research Briefing: Promoting A Culture Of Life: The Romney Vision Vs. The Democrat Vision
The influence of family members and events in Mitt Romney's life on matters of abortion are worth considering. They illuminate obstacles he surmounted to adopt pro-life beliefs in his private life. Mitt Romney’s mother, Lenore Romney, advocated a pro-choice position in her unsuccessful 1970 run for the U.S. Senate in Michigan, writing in her campaign platform, "I support and recognize the need for more liberal abortion rights while reaffirming the legal and medical measures needed to protect the unborn and pregnant woman [sic]." Mitt Romney revealed in 1994 that his brother-in-law's sister, a close family friend, died after a botched illegal abortion in the 1960s when Mitt would have been in his teens and early 20s.
(Romney releases mother's statement on abortion issue, Boston Globe, June 28, 2005)In a 2/14/07 appearance on ABC "Good Morning America", Ann Romney talks about her personal struggle with multiple sclerosis and offers her perspective on embryonic stem cell research with a powerful, inspiring message opposing medical experimentation that could conceivably relieve her own suffering. Read a thought-provoking commentary by Alliance Defense Fund attorney David French on Ann Romney's strength of character in opposing embryonic stem cell research as seen in the ABC "Good Morning America" segment.
Gov. Romney made a $15,000 contribution in 2006 to the pro-life group Massachusetts Citizens for Life from the Tyler Charitable Foundation, a joint family trust of Mitt and Ann Romney. They also donated $10,000 to the Massachusetts Family Institute during the same time period.
The Tyler Charitable Foundation has donated more than $2.9 million to more than 40 healthcare groups, schools, and other charitable organizations since 1999.
The Boston Globe noted that as late as 1995, Marie Sturgis, the legislative director for Massachusetts Citizens for Life, considered Romney to be an "abortion rights supporter", as did the national Family Research Council.
Massachusetts Citizen's for Life, you say? Well, let's see what they really have had to say RECENTLY (not in 1995)about Mitt Romney actual RECORD (you know, that thing that you've already said is the most important factor):
Massachusetts Citizens for Life recently gave Gov. Romney their 2007 Mullins Award for Outstanding Political Leadership presented at the Mother's Day Pioneer Valley Dinner where Romney delivered the keynote speech.Massachusetts Citizens For Life Executive Director Marie Sturgis: "Having Governor Romney in the corner office for the last four years has been one of the strongest assets the pro-life movement has had in Massachusetts." (Kathryn Jean Lopez, "An Early Massachusetts Primary," National Review, 1/10/07)
Massachusetts Citizens For Life Pioneer Valley Chapter Chairman Kevin Jourdain: "Mitt Romney was a great Governor, who served with honor and distinction. But most importantly, he was a pro-life Governor. He vetoed a number of pro-abortion pieces of legislation and made many pro-life appointments. He was always there for us." (Kevin Jourdain, Remarks, Agawam, MA, 5/10/07)
found a Log Cabin Republican (of all groups!) advertisement which exposed Romney as having a pro-choice record as being "Mostly True", somewhat mitigated by his recent turnabout to a professed pro-life position.
So, now you're on the pro-radical gay agenda Log Cabin Republicans' side in opposing Mitt Romney due to the fact that Romney is AGAINST the gay agenda, opposes gay marriage, and is the only frontrunning candidate who has supported the Federal Marriage Amendment. Their very opposition to Mitt Romney, that you have cited, proves that Romney is against their agenda. Yet you're trying to attack Romney as if he was for their agenda. You're not making sense.
Which is because they grade on other issues besides just abortion and "life issues". If you look at the actual NRTL scorecards for 1997-1998, 1999-2000, and 2001-2002, we see that each session, the only things they dinged FDT on was his campaign finance "reform" votes (which, admittedly, were very bad decisions). As far as actual, real, true-to-life abortion votes, he is 100%, per the votes they listed each session.
The fact of the matter is, simply, that Fred Thompson did NOT receive 100% pro-life records from the premiere pro-life organization in America.
Here are the facts:
His voting record, according to Project Vote Smart's list of his ratings from National Right to Life, are:
- 1996 86%
- 1997 83%
- 1998 87%
- 1999 75%
- 2000 77%
And according to National Right to Life Committee's own ratings:
If you average the ratings reported by Project Vote Smart, you get only an 81.6% pro-life rating.
If you average the ratings reported directly by the National Right to Life Commitee, you get only a 66% rating.
Since Dr. Willke appears to be either ignorant of or deliberately obfuscating Mitt's pro-choice record, then yes, Dr. Willke is a shill for Romney (though it should be noted that Dr. Willke's choice was apparently made because he suffers from UFOH (Unfounded Fear of Hillary) Syndrome.
So, because you don't agree with this prominent pro-life leader, you cast aspersions about his intelligence, call him stupid, or pretend to read his mind. You're trying to rationalize away this important and unsurpassed pro-life endorsement.
The only dead link in my previous post was the one that was supposed to go to the THOMAS list of amendments to H.R.2020 provided with the bill. Apparently THOMAS doesn't like such links, and allows them to expire. One can easily go to either of the other links (the two pro-life votes by FDT) and click on the bill number itself, then click on "Amendments" and see the list for themselves. The amendment you describe doesn't even APPEAR on that list, however. In fact, I've searched the Congressional Record and cannot find the language nor lines which you describe. Can you kindly provide a link to the text which contains the page and line numbers for verification (since the bill text, either HTML or PDF, seems to be unpaginated)?
You're making statements, basically calling me a liar, about this specific vote and the contents of the amendment on this and a previous thread, but you've just admitted that you don't know what you're talking about and have not actually looked at the Congressional Record to even know if the accusation you directed at me was remotely true. Verifiably false - that's what you called what I said about his vote on this amendment. Well, verify it then, or retract your accusation.
You are comparing apples with oranges. Mitt's public record, up until mid-2005, seems stridently pro-choice, and then he makes a sudden about face. It's not just that he "doesn't have a 100% pro-life voting record" or that he answered some questionnaire questions pro-choice.
You keep saying that like it is true, or something. But all you can provide are a few things that he SAID, not his actual record that you keep SAYING is stridently pro-choice. Other people disagree with you on your interpretation of his record. People like pro-life leaders, pro-life organizations, etc.
Better you should go out on team-ups with the full-time missionaries to seek out the pure in heart who are ready to receive the message of the Gospel and act on the promptings of the Holy Ghost....
Better you should go out on team-ups with the full-time missionaries to seek out the pure in heart who are ready to receive the message of the Gospel and act on the promptings of the Holy Ghost....
Better you should go out on team-ups with the full-time missionaries to seek out the pure in heart who are ready to receive the message of the Gospel and act on the promptings of the Holy Ghost....
Or you could go to Best-Buy and buy a new mouse for me....
Or you could go to Best-Buy and buy a new mouse for me....
Looking at the list you provided of Mitt's pro-life record, I should note a few things:
This explains the seemingly contradictory information coming out about Mitt's record. This is why Marie Sturgis could call Mitt an "abortion rights supporter" in 1995, but in 2007 she calls him a pro-life asset. This is why in early 2005, National Review looked back on Mitt's record and said he was a supporter of ESC research, but that he then later vetoed it in Massachusetts. It's because Mitt did an about-face on life issues in 2005. All your list does is CONFIRMS that Mitt is a flip-flop, and a potential Trojan Horse, on this issue.
So, now you're on the pro-radical gay agenda Log Cabin Republicans' side in opposing Mitt Romney due to the fact that Romney is AGAINST the gay agenda, opposes gay marriage, and is the only frontrunning candidate who has supported the Federal Marriage Amendment. Their very opposition to Mitt Romney, that you have cited, proves that Romney is against their agenda. Yet you're trying to attack Romney as if he was for their agenda. You're not making sense.
The reason I'm "not making sense" is because you missed the point entirely. I pointed out that an attack ad (from the Log Cabin "Republicans") said he was pro-choice, and a non-partisan review organisation AGREED. The fact that the ad comes from the LC"R"s is largely irrelevant - the content of the ad itself was truthfully marking Romney as pro-choice. Your attempt to cast me as some supporter of the radical gay agenda solely on the basis of this IS dishonest, and DOES make you a liar, or at least an exceedingly uninformed and ignorant person.
The fact of the matter is, simply, that Fred Thompson did NOT receive 100% pro-life records from the premiere pro-life organization in America.
Did you even bother to LOOK at the links I posted previously? They were to the actual scorecards from the NRTL Committee. The vote breakdowns are shown. Fred voted pro-life every single time. They just dinged him for voting for campaign finance reform each year. Get it through your thick skull - every single ABORTION vote on those scorecards was a pro-life vote by FDT, every single one.
So, because you don't agree with this prominent pro-life leader, you cast aspersions about his intelligence, call him stupid, or pretend to read his mind. You're trying to rationalize away this important and unsurpassed pro-life endorsement.
Tell you what - why don't you go back and reread what I wrote, and show me where I called Dr. Willke "stupid". Now he IS shilling for Mitt - anyone who's seen Mitt's record knows he was pro-choice until he suddenly became pro-life in 2005. If this fooled Dr. Willke, then shame on Dr. Willke.
You're making statements, basically calling me a liar, about this specific vote and the contents of the amendment on this and a previous thread, but you've just admitted that you don't know what you're talking about and have not actually looked at the Congressional Record to even know if the accusation you directed at me was remotely true. Verifiably false - that's what you called what I said about his vote on this amendment. Well, verify it then, or retract your accusation.
That's the point - I HAVE looked at the Congressional Record. I've looked at every bit of information about the votes and amendments to H.R. 2020, 104th Congress, 1st Session (1995) that I could find - and DID NOT FIND what you describe. The information you claim exists does not, in fact, seem to exist. If it does, then you need to show the rest of us where it is that you are getting the specific information that page 76, lines 10-17 was abortion related, and that Fred voting to remove it was a pro-choice vote. Until you do this, I have to assume that either you, or the source which you cut-and-pasted the claim from, are blowing smoke.
You keep saying that like it is true, or something. But all you can provide are a few things that he SAID, not his actual record that you keep SAYING is stridently pro-choice. Other people disagree with you on your interpretation of his record. People like pro-life leaders, pro-life organizations, etc.
Pro-life leaders and organisations thought Mitt was pro-choice before 2005. It is only NOW that they think he is pro-life. Why is that? It's because Mitt changed his position, seemingly overnight, when he began to seriously think about running for the GOP nomination, that's why.