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Origin of Vision Discovered
LiveScience ^ | 10/18/07 | Andrea Thompson

Posted on 10/22/2007 9:07:09 PM PDT by LibWhacker

You are reading these words right now because 600 million years ago, an aquatic animal called a Hydra developed light-receptive genes—the origin of animal vision.

It wasn't exactly 20-20 vision back then though.

Hydras, a genus of freshwater animals that are kin to corals and jellyfish, measure only a few millimeters in diameter and have been around for hundreds of millions of years.

Scientists at the University of California, Santa Barbara studied the genes associated with vision (called opsins) in these tiny creatures and found opsin proteins all over their bodies.

(Excerpt) Read more at livescience.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: hydra; origin; precambrian; vision
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To: ketsu
:yawn: No use expending effort on kooks. If you really want the straight dope from a mathematician check out the blog “good math/bad math”. The complexity issue has also been dealt with by Dawkins and E.O. Wilson. Feel free to educate yourself.

Do us a favor, then, and explain what your mathematician says, then how the "complexity issue" (which, apparently, has been done to death), was dealth with by Dawkins and E.O. Wilson. I'm not a kook, I'm open to seeing what you've got to offer. In case you're wondering, I'm a Christian who doesn't place God in the literal box of 6 24-hour days.

121 posted on 10/23/2007 4:21:39 AM PDT by EarthBound (Ex Deo,gratia. Ex astris,scientia (Fred/Duncan - dream team))
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To: valkyry1
Yes but this is your entry, And that was not any sort of argument at all.
Exactly, you don't dignify the kook with an argument.
122 posted on 10/23/2007 4:22:01 AM PDT by ketsu
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To: Last Visible Dog

Ha, even better. +1


123 posted on 10/23/2007 4:41:53 AM PDT by jblair (Air Force Brat)
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To: EarthBound
Do us a favor, then, and explain what your mathematician says, then how the "complexity issue" (which, apparently, has been done to death), was dealth with by Dawkins and E.O. Wilson. I'm not a kook, I'm open to seeing what you've got to offer. In case you're wondering, I'm a Christian who doesn't place God in the literal box of 6 24-hour days.
A mathematical refutation is here

That said the whole idea of irreducible complexity it that you have an organism that is made of complex parts that work in tandem with one another. If one of those parts is removed then the whole system won't work. Irreducible complexity argues that an organism is an "all or nothing" system. Therefore organism can't evolve, because the parts need each other.

That argument is piffle for precisely the subject of this thread. Take an eye. An eye is incredibly complex, it needs a variety of things working together and a brain to understand it. To make a human eye from *nothing* at random from nothing is impossible. However, given a previous system it's possible to gain advantages with even simple less complex systems(like the light receptor mentioned in this article). Any upper level high school biology textbook will have a description of this process along with eyes/photoreceptors of increasing complexity.

Does that help?
124 posted on 10/23/2007 4:43:11 AM PDT by ketsu
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To: LibWhacker

The eyes have it, naturally.


125 posted on 10/23/2007 4:44:19 AM PDT by MortMan (Have a pheasant plucking day!)
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To: ketsu
Does that help?

It does indeed. Thanks for the link and the explanation.

126 posted on 10/23/2007 5:09:17 AM PDT by EarthBound (Ex Deo,gratia. Ex astris,scientia (Fred/Duncan - dream team))
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To: null and void
Give it a few million years, be sure to weed out ones with worse image detection

So if I look back over those few million years I should see lots of transitional models and many more with inferior, or non-functioning imaging capabilities that were selected for discontinuation?

127 posted on 10/23/2007 5:16:04 AM PDT by SC Swamp Fox (Join our Folding@Home team (Team# 36120) keyword: folding)
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To: EarthBound
It does indeed. Thanks for the link and the explanation.
Thanks for the open mind. Precious few of those around here. :)
128 posted on 10/23/2007 5:47:47 AM PDT by ketsu
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To: ketsu; All

Comes with the territory, I'm afraid. Better than DU, KOS, or HuffPost though. =). At least we're Conservative fuddy-duddies.

129 posted on 10/23/2007 5:51:51 AM PDT by EarthBound (Ex Deo,gratia. Ex astris,scientia (Fred/Duncan - dream team))
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To: ketsu
I really do enjoy this. When you don’t play the kooks game, dignifying the kook with an argument, the kook goes crazy, blithering about ad hominems and so on.

Ketsu is at it again. What is funny about lightweights like Ketsu is it arrogantly spews insults thinking it is taking intellectual positions, it attempts to use words it clearly doesn't understand, and it retorts to positions nobody has taken - this level of sophistication is usually relegated to the elementary school (no offense to six-year-olds) - still it thinks it is clever.

130 posted on 10/23/2007 6:42:48 AM PDT by Last Visible Dog
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To: SC Swamp Fox

You might be lucky enough to see a dozen or so examples. The rest got recycled...


131 posted on 10/23/2007 7:08:35 AM PDT by null and void (Franz Kafka would have killed himself in despair if he lived in the world we inhabit today.)
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To: ValerieTexas
Why did you accept and repeat this story of the eohippus?

It's a story I know.

Same reason people accept the Biblical story, I guess.

132 posted on 10/23/2007 7:11:03 AM PDT by null and void (Franz Kafka would have killed himself in despair if he lived in the world we inhabit today.)
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To: Last Visible Dog

Excellent!


133 posted on 10/23/2007 7:14:35 AM PDT by null and void (Franz Kafka would have killed himself in despair if he lived in the world we inhabit today.)
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To: ValerieTexas
Only in retrospect. Duh.

Well, did you think we planned this?

134 posted on 10/23/2007 7:17:52 AM PDT by null and void (Franz Kafka would have killed himself in despair if he lived in the world we inhabit today.)
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To: MortMan

*groan*


135 posted on 10/23/2007 7:21:10 AM PDT by null and void (Franz Kafka would have killed himself in despair if he lived in the world we inhabit today.)
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To: ValerieTexas
Well, it's not fossil proof, but it is a hand drawn picture of the evolution of the horse. That's good enough for me!

Not me. I want photographs!

136 posted on 10/23/2007 7:24:17 AM PDT by null and void (Franz Kafka would have killed himself in despair if he lived in the world we inhabit today.)
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To: Last Visible Dog

The environment applies selective pressure. In regions where malaria is endemic there is selective pressure that maintains the sickle cell anemia gene within the population because having one copy of the gene confers resistance to malaria. Darwin spoke of both environmental selection and used as a parallel, human selection for desired traits among domesticated species. Far from being ‘absolutely contrary to Darwinian Orthodoxy’ it was expounded upon clearly and repeatedly throughout ‘Origin of Species’.


137 posted on 10/23/2007 7:25:20 AM PDT by allmendream (A binary modality is a sure sign you don't understand the problem. (Hunter 08))
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To: allmendream
The environment applies selective pressure.

The environment does not apply anything - unless you are referring to a past tense abstraction created by man. The environment does not have the ability to do anything - the environment is an abstract concept created by man, not an entity capable of doing anything in the active tense

Far from being ‘absolutely contrary to Darwinian Orthodoxy’ it was expounded upon clearly and repeatedly throughout ‘Origin of Species’.

That makes absolutely no sense in the context of my statement. I am guessing you are replying to my comment about the possibility of a security camera reproducing - to claim this is impossible is to deny the foundational princple of evolution - something from nothing...over large amounts of time. (don't confuse possible with probable)

138 posted on 10/23/2007 8:02:49 AM PDT by Last Visible Dog
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To: Nathan Zachary
Of course all these evolutionary “steps” require incredible odds, well beyond 600,trillions of billions to one.

Because you're positing that evolution has a direction. It doesn't. Speciation happened to proceed the way it has partly by selection, but partly as well by chance, and it could have proceeded in a nearly infinite number of other directions as well. The odds of any one particular outcome occurring are small, but that's also irrelevant.

139 posted on 10/23/2007 8:03:47 AM PDT by Alter Kaker (Gravitation is a theory, not a fact. It should be approached with an open mind...)
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To: Alter Kaker

I was hoping that, without any others of it’s kind to mate with, it might evolve a form of asexual reproduction. Or would that be “de-evolve”,since we started with asexual reproduction before organisms figured out just how much fun sex was.


140 posted on 10/23/2007 8:08:16 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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