Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: spetznaz
Your post basically asserts that differences in intelligence (as measure by IQ tests) are the result of nurture, not genetics with nothing other than anecdotal evidence. That's not the way to successfully refute claims based on empirical study.

I think there are both genetic and environmental factors that influence both intelligence and achievement, that is to say the use of the intelligence one has.

Clearly, attitudes, application and diligence, as well as opportunity, greatly affect achievement and possibly even IQ. There is no question that someone with a relatively low IQ who has an outstanding work ethic and applies him or herself diligently can outstrip a person with a relatively higher IQ who is a lazy sot.

To the extent Cosby (and Juan Williams for that matter) preaches blacks in the US have allowed themselves to perpetuate a culture that does not even attempt to make full use of their intellectual capabilities (whatever they may be), he is absolutely right.

To suggest that it follows logically that with application scores will become equal across groups is inaccurate.

Your points about the success of blacks of immediate African (and West Indian) origin in the US does not prove anything - they are self-selected (by coming here) and undoubtedly are of higher intelligence and diligence than the average populations in their countries of origin.

If you read my posts, you will see I do not suggest anywhere that individuals should be judged by group norms. On the other hand, to deny the empirical evidence because it is uncomfortable strikes me as a profound mistake that makes finding real solutions impossible - because it's unclear even what the solutions might and ought to be, and whether the cost of attempting particular solutions (in money and the effects on people) are socially accpetable.

168 posted on 10/17/2007 7:00:43 AM PDT by CatoRenasci (Ceterum Censeo Parthiam Esse Delendam -- Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 160 | View Replies ]


To: CatoRenasci; spetznaz

You beat me to it!

No one has suggested that there aren’t highly intelligent people of all races. The problem arises when some races outperform others on average, which definitely does occur. The assumption is automatically made that each race would perform equally well at every task that exists, were it not for some hidden bias or discrimination. So when blacks don’t get into med school in exact proportion to their population numbers, people start screaming for affirmative action and demanding that a quota be established. It’s declared to be impossible to conceive that one race could actually outperform another in any particular task, but there’s no reason to believe that’s the case.

This doesn’t mean individuals can’t be judged as individuals. They should.


178 posted on 10/17/2007 7:17:54 AM PDT by puroresu (Enjoy ASIAN CINEMA? See my Freeper page for recommendations (updated!).)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 168 | View Replies ]

To: CatoRenasci

How about denying “empirical evidence” because the test groups were chosen in a ridiculous manner?

Being “black” does not indicate genetic similarity. These ethnic comparisons are done based on skin color. Therefore, the results are meaningless in the sense that they allow a comparison of intelligence between black and white Americans due to genetic factors.

There may be a difference in performance on tests between the two groups, but it must be based on environmental factors due to the above.


187 posted on 10/17/2007 7:37:13 AM PDT by Constantine XIII
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 168 | View Replies ]

To: CatoRenasci
Thanks for providing the most cogent posts in this thread.

The tyranny of political correctness and the specter of being labeled a "racist" has caused many to completely ignore empirical evidence for fear of it taking them to a place they don't want to go.

I, for one, want an investigation and empirical study of why, with the retirement of Jason Sehorn, there are no white cornerbacks in the NFL (/sarcasm).

204 posted on 10/17/2007 8:34:13 AM PDT by True-Stu
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 168 | View Replies ]

To: CatoRenasci

To me this is the same as a ‘true believer’ in creationism not buying data that conflicts and most likely invalidates the theory entirely.

If it’s true, on average, that blacks are disadvantaged intellectually I’m not sure what can really be done. Remove voting rights? That would affect the smart ones unfairly. IQ tests to vote? That would put too much stock into IQ tests and leave endless room for USSR style oppression.


209 posted on 10/17/2007 8:54:53 AM PDT by Tolsti
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 168 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson