“They are clearly like that if you choose to interpret them like that.”
They are clearly like that as a matter of objective reality.
How does a person come to the point that he thinks he can get over on people like that?
“You dont know me at all, and it is insulting for you to think you do.”
It’s silly for you to imagine that people can’t read you. Besides, what in the world is insulting in people thinking that your statements (and their necessary premises and implications) reveal a good deal about you? Are you so brilliant, so superior, that we lowly mud-crawlers insult you in even imagining that we could comprehend the least vestige of your majesty?
“Besides, I put “left” in quotation marks because I dont know exactly what your definition of that is, and it may not tie in with mine.”
Yes, I’ve been suspecting that yours is wrong.
“I could interpret the word “pretend” there to be patronising too, with rather more cause.”
No, it’s not patronizing. It’s downright derogatory—to leftists. Are you saying you’re a leftist?
“Perhaps it would be more accurate to say therefore that you are justified by virtue of the same careful study you have made of the issues concerned AND observation of the thinking and behavior of “leftists”.
It’s not a question of justification, but of what is true and what is not.
“If these things are manufactured it is more for the purpose of self-deception. The deceiving of others is a side-effect.”
That’s too kind. Oh, it’s true of many leftists, I agree, but many more are quite happy to engage in the worst forms of dishonesty if it furthers their cause.
“Ah, but what are the correct definitions?”
The correct definitions are forged by reality, independently of any person’s opinion.
“During the course of this time, has your definition of what a “leftist” is altered at all?”
My understanding of the definition of a leftist has come closer to the reality.
“If that is the case, would you concede the possibility that it might change again in the future, as your understanding further grows and develops?
As Charles Caleb Colon wrote, “He that is good, will infallibly become better, and he that is bad, will as certainly become worse; for vice, virtue and time are three things that never stand still.” I can hope that my understanding will continue to develop in the right direction, but it will not reverse itself unless I go senile and then fall in with a 20-something hottie, like Goldwater.
“Ah now that really is a patronising assumption on your part.”
Even if I were mistaken about your comment being an indirect way of saying “f*ck you” to me, which I don’t think I am, saying so would not be patronizing. Dictionary.
“They are clearly like that as a matter of objective reality.”
I don’t believe so.
“How does a person come to the point that he thinks he can get over on people like that?”
Words escape me as to how you can accuse people of “implying” you are “close minded”, bigoted etc (see start of this discussion), then come out with lines like that, and then have the temerity to not claim you are doing the same.
“It’s silly for you to imagine that people can’t read you.”
It is. Thats why I dont believe that.
“Besides, what in the world is insulting in people thinking that your statements (and their necessary premises and implications) reveal a good deal about you?”
Nothing at all. And the reverse holds true. Which is why when you do make close-minded statements and unsubstantiated claims you get called on it.
“Are you so brilliant, so superior, that we lowly mud-crawlers insult you in even imagining that we could comprehend the least vestige of your majesty?”
No, the insult is in thinking you know exactly who and what I am and believe based on just a few messages on an internet board, most of which, frankly, I consider have been grossly and consistently misinterpreted.
“Yes, I’ve been suspecting that yours is wrong.”
For this *particular* issue i.e. why I put quotes round “left”, which of our definitions is correct is quite immaterial. The point is that they are different.
“No, it’s not patronizing. It’s downright derogatory”
Curiously that doesn’t make me feel much better.
“Are you saying you’re a leftist?”
No you’re saying that, and making it quite clear you regard such people as the lowest of the low. I just think of myself as a very small part of God’s handiwork.
“That’s too kind. Oh, it’s true of many leftists, I agree, but many more are quite happy to engage in the worst forms of dishonesty if it furthers their cause.”
Maybe I am too good for this world (or too naive) but my experience is that very few people consciously think of themselves as being evil or even dishonest. By a process of self-deception and compartmentalisation they convince themselves they are actually the “good guys” with a mission and a purpose; and that someone or something else are the “baddies”, who need to be confounded or crushed at all costs. Once someone gets into that mode of thinking, they are one step away from believing the ends justify the means. And once that is accepted, they will do almost anything in the name of “the cause” or “the greater good”. Adolf Hitler caused the deaths of millions and attempted genocide, but he would have looked at you with steady eyes and tell you he did it for the glory of God.
“The correct definitions are forged by reality, independently of any person’s opinion.”
I understand that, but what are those definitions?
“My understanding of the definition of a leftist has come closer to the reality.”
OK, so you concede your understanding has altered over the course of time (not surprisingly) and you also imply, by saying “closer to the reality” that you consider your understanding is still incomplete. I presume that is because you accept the idea of the inherent frailties of being Human. Would that be a fair assessment?
“I can hope that my understanding will continue to develop in the right direction, but it will not reverse itself unless I go senile and then fall in with a 20-something hottie, like Goldwater.”
I was asking whether you thought it could change as a result of movement in the direction you are going now. I wasn’t suggesting that it would or might reverse.
“Even if I were mistaken about your comment being an indirect way of saying “f*ck you” to me, which I don’t think I am, saying so would not be patronizing. Dictionary.”
You were mistaken. When I say sorry, I mean sorry. A little terse this time I admit, but it was the end of the comment and I was tired.
Patronising means condescending in my book. Interpreting someone elses statements consistently in the most negative way possible, and in opposition to the plain meaning of the words, is extremely condescending, as by pushing them down you naturally assume a position of (false) moral superiority. This is ironic, as it is the very same thing you have been accusing me of doing! Even though I dispute a lot of that, I have conceded some wrongdoing. So I would appreciate acceptance of an apology.
And I don’t like swearing on internet boards anyway. The “*” in the middle of the word is a feeble fop to courtesy. It is still quite clear what is meant so as far as I am concerned it is as bad as using the word itself.