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To: Non-Sequitur
The Yankees were occupying a cork in the mouth of South Carolina's most important port.

The U.S. is occupying a cork in one of Cuba's busiest port. Do the Cubans have the right to bombard Gitmo into surrender?

Putting aside the question of the legitimacy of Castro's unelected government, yes, it's their territory.

Their president was publicly demanding tribute and threatening to invade if he didn't get it.

Absolute hogwash.

It's right there in his first inaugural speech. Pay the tariff and we won't invade.

And you want to talk about names on deeds.

I'm talking about the rule of law. And I can well understand why Southron supportersd finds that topic uncomfortable.

Lincoln never gave a damn about the rule of law. He suspended habeas corpus, threw opposition figures in jail without trial, invaded sovereign states which had not seceded and overthrew their governments.

277 posted on 10/14/2007 2:31:57 PM PDT by antinomian (Show me a robber baron and I'll show you a pocket full of senators.)
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To: antinomian
Putting aside the question of the legitimacy of Castro's unelected government, yes, it's their territory.

What? No question on the legitimacy of the confederacy's unelected president?

It's right there in his first inaugural speech. Pay the tariff and we won't invade.

I've read Lincoln's first inaugural, and I highly recommend you do the same. It's not as good as his second inaugural IMHO, but it is very clear. "In your hands, my dissatisfied fellow countrymen, and not in mine, is the momentous issue of civil war. The government will not assail you. You can have no conflict without being yourselves the aggressors." And he was true to his word. Not an single aggressive action was taken prior to the confederacy's bombardment of Sumter. When we look at the part you are apparently thinking of:

"The power confided to me will be used to hold, occupy, and possess the property and places belonging to the government, and to collect the duties and imposts; but beyond what may be necessary for these objects, there will be no invasion -- no using of force against or among the people anywhere. Where hostility to the United States in any interior locality, shall be so great and so universal, as to prevent competent resident citizens from holding the Federal offices, there will be no attempt to force obnoxious strangers among the people for that object. While the strict legal right may exist in the government to enforce the exercise of these offices, the attempt to do so would be so irritating, and so nearly impracticable with all, that I deem it better to forego, for the time, the uses of such offices.

The mails, unless repelled, will continue to be furnished in all parts of the Union. So far as possible, the people everywhere shall have that sense of perfect security which is most favorable to calm thought and reflection. The course here indicated will be followed, unless current events and experience shall show a modification or change to be proper; and in every case and exigency my best discretion will be exercised according to circumstances actually existing, and with a view and a hope of a peaceful solution of the national troubles, and the restoration of fraternal sympathies and affections." Lincoln is clear there as well. Sumter is the property of the federal government, and the federal government will retain ownership. The federal government will continue to provide the services it has always done - collect revenue, deliver the mail, etc. No hostile actions will be taken, in the hope that cooler heads would prevail. Unfortunately there were no cooler heads in the South.

Lincoln never gave a damn about the rule of law. He suspended habeas corpus, threw opposition figures in jail without trial, invaded sovereign states which had not seceded and overthrew their governments.

More hogwash. Lincoln's actions on habeas corpus may or may not have been Constitutional, the Supreme Court never ruled on it. But Davis threw opposition figures in jail, didn't establish a Supreme Court, implemented protective tariffs and, if stories be true, promised the European powers he would end slavery if they recognized the confederacy. All in violation of his own constitution. Yet nary a complaint about that from the Southern hypocrisy crowd.

278 posted on 10/14/2007 3:21:28 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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