Posted on 10/11/2007 2:41:12 PM PDT by Lorianne
tell us, N-S, do you approve (YES or NO) of Roe v. Wade, Plessy V Ferguson, etc.???
either the "9 crows" are right or NOT.
free dixie,sw
after all, LOTS of INNOCENT civilians were so arrested and/or "disappeared" by the lincoln thugs, without even the PRETENSE of an indictment, charges or a trial.
but then, that's why we southrons call him : THE TYRANT.
free dixie,sw
Where did I state that I didn't have an MBA? And I did buy the kids a horse.
In the first case, the narrative makes it clear that Taney expected to be arrested before he issued his Ex Parte Merryman decision.
Calhoun's analysis, not Lamon's.
Now look at the Lamon account. Chuckie Adams has written columns on it and according to him:
Chuckie? Jealous? Again, citing Calhoun, not Lamon.
That makes it clear that according to Lamon discussions on arresting Taney took place after the Merryman decision was made.
No, not according to Lamon. Not according to Taney. Not according to Mayor Brown.
And the final fact that counts against this whole Taney arrest fairytale is the fact that not a single biographer of Taney has ever found enough evidence to include it in any of their books on the man. Not one.
Try Memoir of Roger Brooke Taney, LL.D.: Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of The United States by Samuel Tyler.
Well, no. Not if you read what you post. Your quote from Tyler: "But the chief Justice, with the weight of eighty-four years upon him, as he left the house of his son-in-law, Mr. Campbell, remarked that it was likely he should be imprisoned in Fort McHenry before night; but that he was going to court to do his duty." That makes it clear that Taney told his fears to his son-in-law the morning before he issued the ruling so his paranoia had kicked in prior to Lincoln knowing what he was going to do and apparently continued after he issued his ruling. Now unless Calhoun's account is totally bogus, Lamon is saying that the discussion to arrest Taney occured after the decision and with other people present, not just Lamon and Lincoln. So there doesn't seem to have been anyone who could have given Taney a heads up on something that wasn't even discussed until after Taney first said he was going to be arrested. Kind of a disconnect there.
Try Memoir of Roger Brooke Taney, LL.D.: Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of The United States by Samuel Tyler.
Yes let's try that. Can you point out where in the book Tyler relates Lamon's story about the arrest warrant? And while you're at it, can you do the same for Lewis's biography or Steiner's biography or Allen's most recent biography? None of them have anything on Lamon's tale in them as well. And while I can't speak for Lewis and Steiner, I did email Dr. Allen after reading his "Lincoln and Chief Justice Taney: Slavery, Seccession, and the President's War Powers" and asked him that very question. Did he find any evidence supporting Lamon's story of the arrest warrant? He actually took the time to answer and his response was that no, he had found nothing to support the claim. So if not a single reputable biographer of Chief Justice Taney has found enough evidence supporting Lamon's claim to include it in their biography's then what do you know that they do not? Other than the product of your imagination, I mean?
Duh, that Taney knew of his possible arrest BEFORE the ruling is not the issue.
... so his paranoia had kicked in prior to Lincoln knowing what he was going to do and apparently continued after he issued his ruling.
Why wouldn't Taney be fearful of being arrested? The dictator and his minions arrested anyone that interfered with Lincoln's power grab. They arrested editors, journalists, politicians, governors, federal and state judges, little girls singing Confederate/Southern songs, little girls playing such songs, even priests that refused to pray to for Lincoln. Lincoln arrested federal judge William Matthew Merrick, judge James L. Bartol, threatened to deport Pennsylvania Chief Justice Walter Hoge Lowrie, and his goons arrested Maryland Judge Richard Bennett Carmichael in the middle of a trial, beating him senseless.
The administration also jailed Judges John H. Mulkey and Andrew D. Duff, just to name some more. Why would Lincoln do this? Possibly because he was a megalomaniac, stating that he 'had sometime thought that perhaps he might be an instrument in God's hands of accomplishing a great work.'
Hail Caesar! </sarcasm>
Now unless Calhoun's account is totally bogus, Lamon is saying that the discussion to arrest Taney occured after the decision and with other people present, not just Lamon and Lincoln.
Calhoun is the one stating that it was after the decision. This is a quote --->"<---, and so is this --->'<---. Calhoun places LAMON's words in quotes, everything else is Calhoun's. To help the visually (and mentally) impaired, Lamon's words are bolded and blue: Taney’s opinion exacerbated the delicate situation in Maryland, a border state yet undecided in its commitment to the Union. According to Marshal Lamon, “after due consideration the administration determined upon the arrest of the Chief Justice.” Lincoln issued a presidential arrest warrant for Taney, but “then arose the question of service.” Who should make the arrest, and where should Taney be imprisoned? "It was finally determined," Lamon remembered, "to place the order of arrest in the hands of the United States Marshal for the District of Columbia.” Lincoln himself handed the warrant to his friend, instructing the marshal to “use his own discretion about making the arrest unless he should receive further orders.” Lamon, availing himself of this discretionary power, decided not to arrest Chief Justice Taney. Taney’s opinion seriously embarrassed Lincoln and his advisers. Southern sympathizers and Northern opponents of the war praised Taney as a partisan of civil liberties standing alone against military tyranny.
Lamon stated that 'Chief Justice Taney was the greatest and best man I ever saw', not Lincoln. He had his orders, but was commanded to use his own discretion. He could have easily let Taney know that his arrest was under consideration. Why would Lincoln trust Lamon? 5 Jun 1861 Lincoln said of his friend, 'Lamon, is entirely reliable, and trustworthy'.
So if not a single reputable biographer of Chief Justice Taney has found enough evidence supporting Lamon's claim to include it in their biography's then what do you know that they do not? Other than the product of your imagination, I mean?
What next noni? The same old cat-and-mouse game - you guys are always the same and Walt was a master of it. Ask for a source, one was provided. Then it must be two sources. If those are provided, that it becomes three. Can you understand why I ridicule your Bizzaro MBA? Here we have Lincoln's closest friend and confidant, a man Lincoln trusted with his life (and whom threatened to resign when Lincoln overruled him regarding Lincoln's lax security measures) stating that Lincoln personally handed him the warrant. What judge had the administration arrested prior to Taney's decision?
Secondly we have the highest judicial officer of the land, Chief Justice Taney indicating his knowledge of the same. We have Taney stating it publicly on his way to the court, and again to Baltimore Chief Judge and Mayor Brown, who himself was arrested by the Lincoln's gestapo.
Sen. Trusten Polk commended Taney for his courage issuing the decision(not for playing tiddlywinks), Sen. Thomas Semmes documented the threats against Taney (who else would threaten Taney?), and former Supreme Court justice Curtis - no friend of Taney's - writes that the administration 'came near to the commission of a great crime', and clears up any doubts as to who the guilty party was when he wrote that 'if the President shall be of opinion that the arrest and incarceration, and trial before a military commission, of a judge of the United States, for some judicial decision', he lacked the power. What judicial decision could Curtis be referring to? What Judge?
No the issue is if he had any evidence to support his paranoid fears.
Why wouldn't Taney be fearful of being arrested? The dictator and his minions arrested anyone that interfered with Lincoln's power grab. They arrested editors, journalists, politicians, governors, federal and state judges, little girls singing Confederate/Southern songs, little girls playing such songs, even priests that refused to pray to for Lincoln. Lincoln arrested federal judge William Matthew Merrick, judge James L. Bartol, threatened to deport Pennsylvania Chief Justice Walter Hoge Lowrie, and his goons arrested Maryland Judge Richard Bennett Carmichael in the middle of a trial, beating him senseless.
In other words you have no evidence to support your claim that Taney had any information ahead of time that he was in danger of being arrested. Why not just say so?
Why would Lincoln trust Lamon? 5 Jun 1861 Lincoln said of his friend, 'Lamon, is entirely reliable, and trustworthy'.
Historians have been less kind of Ward Lamon. In his book "Days of Defiance: Sumter, Secession, and the Coming of the Civil War", Maury Klein compared Lamon's account of what happened in Charleston during his trip there with Stephen A. Hurlburt's account of the same mission. Klein's conclusion was that "Lamon's own account in his Recollections, [pp.] 69-79, is so inflated in his own favor and contradictory to Hurlbut's contemporary account to Lincoln as to be virtually useless as a source for his mission." Ward was a bit of a blowhard.
Ask for a source, one was provided. Then it must be two sources. If those are provided, that it becomes three. Can you understand why I ridicule your Bizzaro MBA?
It's easy to see why dealing with you leaves me shaking my head. Lame attempts at insult aside, you lie. I've asked for one Taney biographer who found Lamon's tale substantive enough to include it in their biography of the man. Just one biographer. You haven't been able to provide a single one. You've repeated that many have described Taney as saying he expected to be arrested, but no proof that such fears were grounded. You repeat Lamon's story as if it came from a burning bush, and continue to ignore the fact that not one single solitary biographer of Taney that I've come across thought it worth including in their work. Why not? Why, if there was any shred of evidence that Lamon was being factual, did every biographer fail to detail this plot of Lincoln's in their book? The answer is clear; not a single reputable historian believes the story to be true because there is not a single shred of evidence to support it. So please spare us your nonsense about how you've provided what I requested, you haven't. You have taken one and added one to it and come up with an apple. It's impossible to tell who's paranoia is greater in this, Taney's or your's.
Personally, I like Allan Pinkerton's assessment of Lamon as a "brainless, egotistical fool."
we all note that you haven't had the GUTS to tell everyone:
WHO you were before being PERMANENTLY banned from FR,
WHAT you did to get yourself banned &
WHEN you are LEAVING the forum forever.
be sure to provide PROOF of everything as your "word of honor" is known by all here to be an oxymoron.
laughing AT you, BIGOT.
free dixie,sw
Speaking of brainless, egotistical fools...
"William Clarke Quantrell was born in New York City"--Stand Watie, 6.29.00
You know, the other thing that’s interesting about this whole “St. John’s rector” being the source of your belief that Quantrill (how he spelled his name) was born in NYC is that in one post you identify your CWRT’s trip to NYC as being in 2001, but you were already making that claim in 2000.
Attorney General Edward Bates under date of 21 Apr 1862 writes, '[t]he Prest [Lincoln] was a good deal stirred up, last friday, and talked about arresting the attornies.' [Beale, Howard K., ed., The Diary of Edward Bates 1859 – 1866, Washington DC: Government Printing Office (1933), p. 252]
Oh the humanity!
Yet Bate's diary is missing entries from 30 Apr 1861 through 5 Jul 1861. No mention of the Merryman case, no mention of Chief Justice Taney, no mention of Lincoln's request to Bates to prepare a response regarding the legality of the suspension of the writ of habeas corpus. Gee, it's as if someone purged the contents. The diaries, consisting of 5 volumes, were delivered to the Manuscripts Division of the Library of Congress by Helen Nicolay. The daughter of John G. Nicolay that admitted suppressing anything detrimental to Lincoln.
therefore, you are just a sick JOKE to most everyone here OR a "source of nausea" to the rest of us.
why not just admit that you are a LIAR, apologize & LEAVE the forum forever???
we all note that you haven't told us WHO you were before being PERMANENTLY banned, WHAT you DID to get yourself banned & WHEN you are LEAVING the forum. (be sure to provide PROOF, as your "word of honor" is an oxymoron.)
laughing AT you.
free dixie,sw
given that you are NOT a BIGOT, what i can't understand is WHY you would "suffer him to remain" in your team, as he damages the unionist cause with every post he spews out onto the forum, like so much liquid sewage.
but PLEASE don't "kick him out", as we "good ' ole rebs" want your team to look RACIST, stupid,MEAN-spirited, illiterate, filled with HATE & terminally ignorant.
free dixie,sw
whenever i can, i'll drop by, post & try to catch up on what's going on.
my family, of course, comes first & everyone (except my teenaged niece & nephew) is over 80YO and/or sick.
PRAY for them, please.
free dixie,sw
You know, medication helps with schizophrenia.
Prayers for your family my friend.
That's a role you fill for the Southron side.
the FACTS are that you are 100% correct, if that's what you're saying. "bubba" is a CREEP. (it is also considered a REALLY weak defense of ANY subject to say that something/someone else is just as bad, as you are ADMITTING that that whatever/whoever you are "defending" is in itself, BAD.)
note to all: you will note that "bubba, the LIAR" has NOT got the GUTS to admit WHO he used to be before he was banned FOREVER from FR, WHAT he did to get himself banned & WHY anyone should believe ANYTHING he spews out onto this forum.
free dixie,sw
Prayers up.
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