Posted on 10/07/2007 8:01:14 PM PDT by JSDude1
President George Bush has repeated his belief all religions, "whether they be Muslim, Christian, or any other religion, prays to the same God" – an assertion that caused outrage among evangelical leaders when he said it in November 2003.
(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...
It’s your choice to believe falsely.
Exactly. I’m argumentative, not trollish.
I’d like to add my few cents worth to your comments.
I get quite tired of people proclaiming what God says or requires, as if their personal beliefs constitute an objective fact.
I have great respect for other people’s beliefs, but that respect tends to disappear when they proclaim that those beliefs are facts. Because when they do so they are articulating their utter disrespect for those who believe differently.
I would be much more comfortable in these discussions if people would say, “I believe God requires this,” rather than “God requires this.”
This leaves the door open to showing equal respect for the beliefs of others.
You apparently are very confused.
I have been discussing some issues found in Scripture and have shared them with you in response to your reaction against identifying Christ as being Jewish.
I have not indicated anything whatsoever as to what my religion is. I have encouraged you to consider faith through Christ. I have not provided argument, but have indicated how one might find true faith.
Faith is not religion.
There is only one true God over all.
These are statements, not arguments. They are not tautology nor an appeal to rationalism. If somebody interprets them as such, they do not understand their meaning.
All men should believe in God through faith in Christ including yourself, but not all men do, nor are they required by other men including myself, in respect of the divinely established institution of volition.
There is a difference between respecting the belief of others and respecting the volition of others.
I do no respect beliefs which are false when I am aware of them, but I do respect the rights of another to their volition. It is disrespectful to God’s volition to rebel from His faith which He provides us, so when we become aware of another faith contrary to His, it is incumbant upon us not to accept the false faith, but to remain in faith through Christ as He has provided.
Sorry, but your interpretation of what happened with Abraham and Isaac is not accurate. First, the “God of the Old Testament” is the same God that we find in the New Testament, so if he’s a “scary dude” in one, he’s just as scary in the other.
There is nothing in that story in Genesis 22 that indicates that Abraham was “in terror and grief” over the situation. He is presented simply as a man who was doing what God told him to do without questioning God’s motives. He had faith that God would provide a substitute sacrifice to take Isaac’s place. That is why in verse 5 of Genesis 22, it says “And Abraham said to his young men, “Stay here with the donkey; the lad and I will go yonder and worship, and we will come back to you.” Abraham is not lying to these men to get them to stay behind so he can go kill his son - he has faith that he and his son will both return to the men as he stated.
In verses 7 and 8, we see the following exchange: “But Isaac spoke to Abraham his father and said, “My father!”
And he said, “Here I am, my son.” Then he said, “Look, the fire and the wood, but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?” And Abraham said, “My son, God will provide for Himself the lamb for a burnt offering.” So the two of them went together.” Again, this doesn’t sound like a man who is grieving, having trouble holding himself together. He is calmly obeying God in faith that God will ultimately not force him to kill his son, this great promise that was delivered to Abraham and Sarah in their old age.
Indeed the Lord did provide the lamb for the burnt offering that day. And the Lord told Abraham that because he had shown that day that he feared God, he should not lay a hand on the boy. This doesn’t mean that Abraham did what he did out of some sense of obligation to God or some sense of sheer terror of what God would do to him if he didn’t comply. It just means that he respected who God is and knew that his son was a gift that came from God in the first place.
That’s why, in verses 17 and 18, God makes an amazing promise to Abraham, a promise that all the nations of the world would be blessed through the seed (Isaac) of Abraham.
I’m not going to post it here because it’s so long, but please read Genesis 17. This is the best explanation I can give of the fact that Abraham knew that God would not require him to kill Isaac. In Genesis 17, God tells Abraham about his future son (Isaac) and the promise that will be fulfilled through him. Notice that in verse 19, God tells Abraham that Isaac will have descendants. If Abraham believed this to be true (he did), then he KNEW without a doubt that God would not allow Isaac to die before this took place. At the time of the events of Genesis 22, Isaac was still a young boy (he is referred to as a “lad”. He certainly didn’t have any descendants yet at that point, so Abraham had confidence that God, who ALWAYS keeps his promises, would keep this one as well and would grant descendants to Isaac through which the nations would be blessed.
The best part of this whole story is the ram that was caught in the thicket, which is a clear picture of Christ - the substitionary atonement for the sins of those who would believe in him.
What if someone says "I believe that God wants us to go out and kill everyone who doesn't bow to Mecca three times a day." Is that person right? Should we show "equal respect" for his beliefs as we do the beliefs of others? The fact is, there is objective truth, and it's found in the Bible, which is the way that God has chosen to communicate with us about who he is and what he demands of us. Now, there can be differences of opinion about what various portions of scripture mean, but there is a right and wrong answer about each meaning. The key is to try to be right on the important things, which demands knowing what things are important and reasoning through the various explanations to determine which one makes the most sense in the context in which it is presented and according to the intent of the writer.
Now, some would disagree and say that the Bible is to each man whatever he wants it to be. I can promise you that is not what God intended for it to be, and people will be judged not on what THEIR INTERPRETATION of scripture was, but on what the scriptures actually meant.
Rintense, I'm just wondering where you got this phrase from?
Just something I typed.
Agreed.
However, who decides? I believe that an intelligent, humble Christian will be willing to accept the possibility that his interpretation is incorrect, and therefore the possibility that other opinions may actually be correct.
The opinion, that I, myself, in all my human fallibility, have determined the final truth about God's ultimate Plan seems unbelievably arrogant to me.
I know what I belive. One of those beliefs is that God will make allowances for imperfect humans making imperfect interpretations of his will, at least as long as those humans don't hubristically claim that they have the Final Answer.
That is why my pastor always prays that God will protect us from errors that he might make while preaching. If he tells us something that is incorrect, he doesn’t want God to hold us accountable for his mistake.
I don’t claim to have the right answers to everything. I will always claim that the Bible has the right answers, and we just have to do our absolute best to determine what it says and what it means.
he that hath seen me hath seen the Father
Those that have seen me have seen God too(GBS). We are all made in the image of God. Christ also. SON OF GOD. Christ, the only path on the way to finding eternal peace!
Passing gas in the name of understanding...........
You are impervious to facts, logic and reason. You have proved nothing. You have stated nothing. You have accomplished nothing.
What you have done, through the pointless circularity of your statements and through your condescension, is confirmed me a thousand times over in my dedication to believe as an Orthodox Jew according to the Torah. For me, there is no trinity or any other testament or scripture but the Torah. Never was, never will be. As my forefathers before me, I am prepared (and hope I never have to face the ultimate test) to give my life rather than change one iota of these beliefs or to deny the absolute truth of the Torah and the absolute Oneness of G-d. For me, the Moshiach (the true messenger of Hashem) has not arrived yet. For me, Hashem is the One and Only Ruler of the Universe and all that is in it. That is my truth. I believe it and, perforce, I must disagree with all other religious ideas: Christian, Muslim, Budhist, Hindu, etc.
Unlike you, I choose to respect all men and women, who, in seeking to live meaningful, good lives, follow a path chosen by nothing other than the best lights of their own conscience, free from harassing, sanctimonious insult.
And you sniff it right at the source?
Completely agree and thank you for adding your voice of reason to this thread.
YMMV
A broad brush? Yes, I intended and made a general statement. The majority of Christians believe that Christ is both God and man at the same time.
I am a Christian and do not believe Jesus is God. He is the Son of God, the earthy presence of God’s Word, conceived of the Holy Spirit and pure in His Divinity. He is of the Father and is His Father in the sense that so sayest the Word, so sayest His Son.
I have no doubt that you are a Christian. You are entitled to have your belief. There are Christians who believe that Christ is only God and only appeared to be a man while on earth. That is not the general belief of Christians, but I also think that they are entitled to their belief. And I don't call them non-Christian because they do not hold the majority view.
I was simply asking for clarity. Thank you.
Perhaps we can all sing “We are the world”!~
Caused outrage? So are the Evangelicals becoming violent?
Hmmm...
So if some some group worships a tiki head in their neighbors backyard...I'm really praying to their God too?
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