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To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl; Diamond; xzins; 1000 silverlings; blue-duncan
the atheist thinks that if he can bump off God and His Moral Law, then he himself can be "the measure of all things." The theist would reply: You can't "kill God." You can't "kill" His Moral Law either: It is built into the nature of things, including the human soul. As Christians suspect know the atheist will discover one day; for God's Moral Law is the very criterion of the Last Judgment to which every human soul is subject.

Amen. Fascinating post.

""This is, in the last analysis, the question as to what are one's ultimate presuppositions. When man became a sinner he made of himself instead of God the ultimate or final reference point. And it is precisely this presupposition, as it controls without exception all forms of non-Christian philosophy, that must be brought into question. If this presupposition is left unquestioned in any field all the facts and arguments presented to the unbeliever will be made over by him according to his pattern. The sinner has cemented colored glasses to his eyes which he cannot remove" ("Defense of the Faith" 94).

"Our argument as over against this would be that the existence of the God of Christian theism and the conception of his counsel as controlling all things in the universe is the only presupposition which can account for the uniformity of nature which the scientist needs. But the best and only possible proof for the existence of such a God is that his existence is required for the uniformity of nature and for the coherence of all things in the world. We cannot prove the existence of beams underneath a floor if by proof we mean that they must be ascertainable in the way that we can see the chairs and tables of the room. But the very idea of a floor as the support of tables and chairs requires the idea of beams that are underneath. But there would be no floor if no beams were underneath. Thus there is absolutely certain proof for the existence of God and the truth of Christian theism. Even non-Christians presuppose its truth while they verbally reject it. They need to presuppose the truth of Christian theism in order to account for their own accomplishments" (DOF 120). -- Cornelius Van Til


99 posted on 10/08/2007 2:51:24 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Frumanchu

ping to 100


101 posted on 10/08/2007 2:54:09 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain And Proud of It! Those who support the troops will pray for them to WIN!)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Thank you so very much for those excellent excerpts!
107 posted on 10/08/2007 9:28:44 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Alamo-Girl; metmom; Diamond; xzins; 1000 silverlings; blue-duncan
...the existence of the God of Christian theism and the conception of his counsel as controlling all things in the universe is the only presupposition which can account for the uniformity of nature which the scientist needs. But the best and only possible proof for the existence of such a God is that his existence is required for the uniformity of nature and for the coherence of all things in the world.

Van Til expresses this essential point most excellently, Dr. Eckleburg! Among other things, God is the ground of all being. The world is the way it is because its fundamental order was established by God in the Beginning. The Logos is God's Word, and it is not jibberish. By His Word, God created the world from nothing, and sustains it in good order to this day and forever.

This answers Leibniz's two great questions: "Why are things the way they are, and not some other way?" It also answers his other great question: "Why is there something, why not nothing at all?" (Because God wills it.)

Scientists must assume uniformities in nature; otherwise science has nothing to do. The fact that there is science at all is tacit proof of the existence of God.

I gladly stand corrected on the excerpt you quoted. :^)

Thank you so much for writing!

114 posted on 10/09/2007 6:35:57 AM PDT by betty boop (Simplicity is the highest form of sophistication. -- Leonardo da Vinci)
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