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To: Diamond; Alamo-Girl; UndauntedR; metmom
The factual question aside, morality is what society says? Your justification is called normative. Which society? What level of society? Good luck trying to derive objective morality from normative ethical relativism…. If you ought to do what your society tells you to do and there is no law above society then by definition there could be no such thing as moral progress and no basis for criticism of another society. Absurdly, a moral reformer would be a contradiction in terms.

Hi Diamond! We have seen what “morality” looks like when it is determined by “society.” To speak of “society” in this context, we have to be aware that, practically speaking, “society” is basically whatever its ruling elites decide to define it as. Hitler wanted an Aryan society purged of all Jews, plus other "unfit" individuals, such as homosexuals, the disabled, gypsies, etc. Thus would Aryan racial purity flourish – which was promoted as a social “good.” He sold this bill of goods to the German people as “moral”; and a nominally Christian society bought it hook, line, and sinker….

The Framers of the U.S. Constitution were well aware that the moral law cannot be a social construction, for it is based in God’s revelation to man. As such, they well understood that the Constitution itself is subservient to it.

To my way of thinking, the moral law can only be universal and divine, God’s great gift to mankind. For its purpose is to secure the maximum liberty and dignity of every human individual and, from there, a good and just society.

Human behavior, unlike that of the lower animals, is very little determined by instinct. God created man with reason and free will; that means that it was necessary not to overly-determine man by making him a creature largely governed by instinct. Instead, the divine moral law would be the guide to human behavior. One is free to accept or reject it. But it should be noted that societies that reject the divine law tend to be pretty inhuman places: Hitler’s Germany, Mao’s China, Pol Pot’s Cambodia, etc., etc. In each of these cases, the moral law was determined by the leadership; and everywhere in those societies, human beings suffered horribly.

Morality is not something that can be decided by human beings, either by way of authoritarian fiat or by a public opinion poll. Again, it is God's Law; and to choose to follow it enables us to achieve our fullest development as the human individuals that God intended us to be.

Well, my two cents worth, FWIW. Thanks so much for the ping, Diamond!

88 posted on 10/08/2007 7:37:36 AM PDT by betty boop (Simplicity is the highest form of sophistication. -- Leonardo da Vinci)
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To: betty boop
Thank you so much for your excellent essay-post, dearest sister in Christ!

Morality is not something that can be decided by human beings, either by way of authoritarian fiat or by a public opinion poll. Again, it is God's Law; and to choose to follow it enables us to achieve our fullest development as the human individuals that God intended us to be.

Amen! Praise God!!!

90 posted on 10/08/2007 10:08:19 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl; UndauntedR; edsheppa; metmom
Thanks for that insightful post, betty boop.

"...the Constitution itself is subservient to it." [the moral law]

I wonder if atheists believe that the Constitution is subservient to the moral law, and if so on what basis, since they deny the transcendent foundation of the moral law.

Cordially,

91 posted on 10/08/2007 10:18:33 AM PDT by Diamond
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