Posted on 10/04/2007 9:32:58 AM PDT by Notary Sojac
Our rant about those $7,250 Pear Anjou speaker cables found its way to the James Randi Educational Foundation (JREF), and Randi offered $1 million to anyone who can prove those cables are any better than ordinary (and also overpriced) Monster Cables. Pointing out the absurd review by audiophile Dave Clark, who called the cables "danceable," Randi called it "hilarious and preposterous." He added that if the cables could do what their makers claimed, "they would be paranormal."
We see that the Pear Cable company is advertising a pair of 12-foot "Anjou" audio cables for $7,250; that's $302 a foot! And, as expected, "experts" were approached for their opinions on the performance of these wonders ... Well, we at the JREF are willing to be shown that these "no-compromise" cables perform better than, say, the equivalent Monster cables. While Pear rattles on about "capacitance," "inductance," "skin effect," "mechanical integrity" and "radio frequency interface," - all real qualities and concerns, and adored by the hi-fi nut-cases - we naively believe that a product should be judged by its actual performance, not by qualities that can only be perceived by attentive dogs or by hi-tech instrumentation. That said, we offer the JREF million-dollar prize to - for example - Dave Clark, Editor of the audio review publication Positive Feedback Online.
This is not Randi's first clash with audiophile reviewers who claim to hear differences between various pieces of exotic equipment. He promises a million dollars (which he has waiting in an account for them) if any can prove in double-blind scientific testing that their extraordinary claims are true. None have stepped up so far.
That’s where the Audiophile Lunatics get involved. Spending an additional $5000 to make the jump from 98.3% perfect to 98.36%. For most people, you’d do better spending (much less) money upgrading your receiver and/or speakers.
This was back in the day when that same magazine was touting using a green Magic Marker on the edges of your CD's to improve the sound, only to find out it ruined the CD! I don't think they could ever salvage their credibility after those episodes.
He would obviously not like any cables run around the fireplace mantle and down the side of the adjacent wall.
Your thoughts pls.
That, and opposable thumbs.
Many a speaker and receiver out there could easily get the THX certification. But they feel the cost to do so, and resultant price increase is not worth it.
Virtually unlimited. The several sites I look at for cables regularly have them in 100' lengths. The longest "in stock" one they have is 131'. But you can custom order it to what ever length you need.
Sadly, I'm old enough to remember the 12AX7, and many other common vacuum tubes. Can't recite them, but I recognize a few common numbers when they show up.
As for the cables, any reasonably heavy-gauge (say, #16 copper) wire should suffice for speakers unless the run is exceptionally long.
We'll see how they do.
Well coax is different in that it’s an analog signal being sent, so as long as it’s properly insulated you can make extremely long runs with that.
But the cable used for HDTV is either component (Red, green, and blue plug) which is still an analog run or HDMI which is a digital cable that sends uncompressed raw video and audio.
This is where the pay more for a high quality HDMI cable comes into play.
For short runs (10 feet or less) you can use inexpensive cables and get great results since there isn’t enough distance to degrade the signal enough, but on long runs like 50’ you’d want to use a high quality cable that’s certified up to 1080P (Which is a standard that no cable or satellite company offers on it’s products, the best right now is 1080i).
So in cases like this the more expensive cable isn’t just worth it, it’s needed believe it or not since most inexpensive cables are certified no high than 1080i or 720p.
here’s a link that will give you a better idea as to why since I’m not that technical.
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/field-notes/the-truth-about-monster-cable-266616.php
I dabble in wires and cables for NASA. They have some of the same concerns that audiophiles do - noise, signal loss, distortion.
Over my 25 years in electronics and cables, here’s what I’ve found out:
1. In any electrical system, the integrity, fidelity and repeatability of the system begins and ends with the POWER SUPPLY. If you have a crappy, noisy power supply in an electronics system, you have a crappy, noisy electronics system. You always, ALWAYS, start with clean power.
BTW, clean power includes correct and adequate grounding systems.
2. 99% of the problems experienced in a multi-component electrical system are connectivity issues.
A) The two components are NOT designed to work together, or
B) The CONNECTIONS between the 2 components is faulty.
“Bad cables” can almost always be translated as “Bad connections” or “bad connectors”.
3. There was once a wise old physicist named Mr. George Ohm. He developed a theorem/Law still in use today. It is called Ohm’s Law. It is the cornestone of all electrical calculations. If an electrical system is designed to operate outside of the parameters of Ohm’s Law, it will not operate.
What does all of that have to do with the audiophile cable challenge?
The actual materials needed to build a set of “correctly functioning” audio cables is very cheap. The Quality and Durability of all electrical connections is THE NUMBER ONE FACTOR in signal quality.
Some VERY quick rules of thumb:
- If your speakers begin distorting the sound when you turn the volume up, it isn’t your speaker wires. You speakers can’t handle the power. There is a set formula for the guage of wire needed to send electrical signals through at given rates. By and large, the type of wire is meaningless. The guage is relevant.
- If your stero system has static and “popping” electrical noise, CHECK THE ELECTRICAL CONNECTIONS! Why is gold used so often in electrical connections? Number one, gold is a very good conducter of electricity. More importantly thought, gold is very resistant to oxidization problems. But, did you know that the standard old jacks work just as well as the gold jacks do 99.9% of the time? It’s that 1% of the time that NASA plans for. That’s why our cables sometimes cost so much.
A 10 foot cable can cause your stereo to be .00009% less clear.
At NASA, a 10 foot cable with a poor connection can make people die.
In ALL my years at NASA and in the electronics industry, I’ve never worked on a cable as expensive (per number of conductors) as the one mentioned in this article.
I was using the THX certification as an example as to how you know Bose isn’t that great, they’re a marketing based company and would love to slap THX Certified on their product and can’t.
And I agree with you also, there is plenty of high quality equipment that isn’t THX certified that sounds much better than things that are.
The only reason I happen to know a few things in this arena is that I just spent allot of time trying to find a high quality surround sound setup for short dough (since I’m painfully cheap, but want good stuff).
Ended up getting Jamo A 102 HCS 5 speakers
http://www.jamo.com/Default.aspx?ID=5898&M=Shop&PID=17138&ProductID=17643
Original retail was around $800 European, I paid $140 brand new on eBay (I love how people only go off of name and don’t bother looking into companies)
Teamed them up with a Denon AVR-687 for $300 and couldn’t be happier
Sounds good ,,, I’m cheap too ... I did some looking around and it seems Jamo=Klipsch I’ll have to remember that ... I’m running a Sony 5channel amp , Klipsch center and Infinity reference series (RS5000’s) for L&R , cables? from Skycraft surplus ,, 18guage copper ,, just a few pennies a foot.. The infinity’s were a garage sale item ,, $20 but needed woofer surrounds ,, $12 (and 30 minutes of gluing) later they kick out the jams... my best audio upgrade? getting rid of the wall to wall carpet and doing hardwood flooring.
TV video components $60
Computer components $30
Electronics components $10
Why do you need a preamp for your mouse?
What I don’t get, is why does he care?
I am an audiophile, and have $28K worth of equipment in my apartment, including several thousand in cable. If I like it, why does that bother people?
I hear there are guys who think on glass of wine tastes different from another, and pay hundreds of dollars for the bottles they like. I can’t taste the difference, but I don’t put them down.
I don’t think his point is that people shouldn’t be allowed to buy, or like such cables. His point is that those who make them LIE to you.
The manufacturers don’t really say all that much that is significant, and most purchasers disregard what the manufacturer says.
We either read cable-comparison reviews written by a reviewer who has similar tastes and systems to our own, or borrow cables from an online dealer who allows home trial with a proper deposit. The only way you can really know if a cable is for you is to put it in your system for a couple of weeks, and listen to a wide variety of music.
However, when I replaced my Cardas Golden Cross interconnects with Discovery Essence, I knew right away they were great. Joe DePhillips, the head honcho of Discovery, had given me a couple of pairs to try. He said “If you like them, send me a check, if you don’t like them, just sent them back within a couple of months.”
Yeah, I mailed him my check.
I guess I should have been a little more general.
The whole audiophile market is driven by audiphioles looking for better sound, not by manufacturers pushing equipment. Of course, they do push, but their claims are most carefully vetted by a large community of enthusiasts and reviewers.
There are audio shows, hundreds of guys listening to dozens of systems and standing around the corridors talking about what they liked and didn’t like for hours.
The manufacturers are mostly single individuals or partnerships, and they will talk to you and other manufacturers and reviewers. We all know each other, we all post to the same sites and read the same magazines and webzines.
Manufacturers come to audio clubs and demo new equipment to the members, a guy who buys something new invites all his friends to come over and listen to it, the high-end stores let known customers listen seriously for several hours at a time.
So the BS detection mechanism is rather highly developed.
Cables? Yes good high quality cables are recommended by speaker and amp companies. Many of the more expensive cables use O2 free copper and have silver (or even gold) polishes because they conduct the signal better with less degradation. As an engineer, I'd say the connects are probably the biggest forgotten factor. $7,000? I've actually seen much higher. Would I be able to tell the difference? Depending on the system (including mine) probably not if compared against a similarly gauged high quality wire which was much cheaper. But bear in mind that some people have over 100K invested in their speakers and preamps and monoblocks. 7K is nickels and dimes to them if it bumps up the sound quality 1%. Clearly in the "diminishing return" area here.
For sound in general, the speakers and the preamp - power amp stage is where $$ shoud be invested for the best sound. Personally, I know that vacuum tube amps blow solid states out of the water. I also can clearly hear the difference between records on a turntable, CD's, burned CD's, CD's burned by a computer, and MP3's. The records are superior because they are not clipping out frequencies. It's a huge difference when listening to classical type music. Also, I'm comparing them in an "audiophile" quality system (albeit at the lower end) which is more expensive than systems that most people buy.
As for headphones, I prefer listening to my speakers that cost me so much. However, I purchased Sennheiser 650HD's on sale for $400 and use them with an Antique Lab tube amp when I have to. Best headphone sound I've ever heard by far. But the Boses' are good too. Because they are smaller and easier for travel, I'm thinking of getting a pair for air travel with an MP3 player. A lot of that would be for listening to speeches and talks that are associated with my work.
Just my $0.02 worth, which is more than I'd have if I bought the system that I would have wanted!
Well musicians or least guitarists are quite familiar with the 12AX7 as it is the preamp tube of choice in guitar amplifiers.
Having failed after many years of engineering even the effects manufacturers are admitting they can’t duplicate the warmth and subtleties of vacuum tubes and are even making effects pedals utilizing the 12AX7.
My tube amp uses them and the 6L6.
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