Posted on 10/04/2007 7:07:18 AM PDT by SJackson
I've seen a lot of opinion polling, but my jaw dropped when I saw this result from our special NBC News-Wall Street Journal poll of Republicans in advance of next week's presidential candidate debate sponsored by CNBC, MSNBC and the WSJ. By a nearly two-to-one margin, Republican voters believe free trade is bad for the U.S. economy, a shift in opinion that mirrors Democratic views and suggests trade deals could face high hurdles under a new president.
Six in 10 Republicans in the poll agreed with a statement that free trade has been bad for the U.S. and said they would agree with a Republican candidate who favored tougher regulations to limit foreign imports. That represents a challenge for Republican candidates who generally echo Mr. Bush’s calls for continued trade expansion, and reflects a substantial shift in sentiment from eight years ago.
"It’s a lot harder to sell the free-trade message to Republicans," said Republican pollster Neil Newhouse, who conducts the Journal/NBC poll with Democratic counterpart Peter Hart.
(Excerpt) Read more at cnbc.com ...
Actually, as humans they want it both ways. Cheap goodies and some assurance that they will have employment.
Their desire for 'assurance' will cause them to vote in a Democrat-Socialist landslide once the imports or lack of employment threatens their world.
Just human nature.
“So why don’t you be specific? What suburbs are you talking about? “
Parma is still decent but a shadow of what it was 20 years ago. Brooklyn, I wouldn’t live there. Cleveland Heights? No thanks. East Cleveland, a sewer. Shaker Heights, is good. Solon is good, but kind of far. I didn’t go through the suburbs one by one because it’s time consuming. My point is, it’s very uneven. For every Shaker Heights, there is a Brooklyn and East Cleveland.
“The simple fact of the matter is that while Cleveland itself is poor (although places like Tremont, Ohio City, and downtown are becoming “happening” places to live for wealthier, younger folks), the suburbs are all pretty nice places to live, thanks to the opportunities available in the “defunct” rust belt city.”
You run in different circles than I do. No one I know would live in those places by choice. Tremont - high crime. Ohio City? Hmmmmm... I’m not that light in the loafers.
That flats was “happening” once too. We see what happened to that.
“That’s exactly my point. You said that “you have to go pretty far out to find a decent suburb.” That’s not true. Pepper Pike is arguably the best suburb in Cleveland and it is 10 miles from downtown.”
You clearly aren’t reading what I’m posting, so I’m going to quit wasting my time with you. For clarity’s sake, I said there were good suburbs for the doctors, lawyers and execs that were out of the reach of average workers.
Sure they are dependent on consumers. Absolutely. Every business is. But this notion that cities that are "rust belt" cities are dying is simply not true. Some of the cities, Cleveland, for instance, is adjusting its economy from a "rust belt" economy to a service-based economy. Companies like Key and Jones Day and the Clinic have customers from all over the world. And whether you can see it or not, Key Bank is one of the top ten largest banks in the United States. It's based in Cleveland. JP Morgan Chase is headquartered in Columbus, Ohio. The times are a-changing.
And it's surprising how little people understand about economics. I prefer to listen to Walter Williams and Thomas Sowell on the subject of economics than friends with anecdotal stories. Our current economy is fantastic, and whining about trade issues has been a tactic of the left for decades.
If I were Soros, I would hire a bunch of people to post anti-trade anecdotes on FR. It damages the economy of the US, and it helps Democrats, two subjects near and dear to Soros' little heart.
Government can ensure they have employment?
Their desire for 'assurance' will cause them to vote in a Democrat-Socialist landslide once the imports or lack of employment threatens their world.
Because democrats have such a strong track record with respect to matters of the economy? Republicans, and their free(r) trade message, will have controlled the White House for 20 out of the past 28 years in 2008.
Just human nature.
It's human nature to make our country more like France?
“It’s human nature to make our country more like France?”
Yes. It’s why the Founding Fathers opted for a representative republic versus a true democracy. If people can vote themselves entitlements, they will. When politicians figure that out, they will continue to promise entitlements until the nation is bankrupt.
Okay Willie.
“Your entire long post is based on this belief: that the lowest prices obtainable should be the determining factor in trade/economic policy.”
I repeat my summation of your previous long post because it also applies to this most recent long post.
Why are you going on about freedom and property rights? Is someone suggesting that we repeal the Bill of Rights and property rights? There has always been tension between those involved in the different factors of production, and there always will be.
You want to look at everything as per capita, or total this and total that. But few any longer deny that the combination of our trade policies which export jobs and immigration policies which intentionally allow in millions of lower wage workers, both legal and illegal, is increasing corporate profits and decreasing the buying power of our lower wage American citizen, and is beginning to affect some higher wage earners.
You throw around all sorts of assertions. But how did this nation grow and prosper for 200 years before all this free trade legislation? You’re simply a purist who can’t see beyond some economic theory you heard in college or read in a book.
We had negotiated trade in the past, negotiated with individual nations. We should have continued something similar to that rather than involving ourselves in regional trade agreements and international organizations such as GATT. By subjecting the US to the decision making authority of GATT and other international organizations (or LOST), we inevitable compromise our sovereignty and lessen the freedom you say you’re so concerned about. GATT can, and has, challenged laws of US states.
You’ve swallowed the free trade mantra. Others are very protectionist. The debate sounds as if there is no middle ground, but there has always been middle ground and that’s where the US should be: negotiating more with individual nations and preserving our sovereignty. Some think the lowest possible price is the only value, others don’t.
And I as this poll clearly show am not alone. I have been sensing the backlash against free traitors building for some time.
Yeah, some people died and they cracked down on underage drinking. I'm not really sure what happened in the flats is terribly applicable.
For every Shaker Heights, there is a Brooklyn and East Cleveland.
I wouldn't lump Brooklyn and East Cleveland together, but that's just me. But how is it "uneven," except for the wealth of the people that live there? Every city and wealthy suburbs and blue-collar suburbs, and you seem to be knocking perfectly decent suburbs just because blue collar folks live there.
You run in different circles than I do. No one I know would live in those places by choice.
Have you seen the Avenue District building that is going up over on East 14th? Condos start at $300,000 and I heard they are already 90% sold, and they've barely broken ground.
But this is beyond my point--it was argued that the rust belt cities are dead, when a place like Cleveland, with its wealthy suburbs and extensive downtown construction demonstrates that it is not. Its economy is changing. It may be slow to adjust, but it is doing it. That's good. If Cleveland can do it, with its backwards leadership and crushing tax burdens, then other places can do it to.
Ahhhh...
The Effectiveness of PROPOGANDA....
“FREE TRADE” is great!
It’s trade hobbled by the effects of DEMOCRAT/LIBERAL POLICY that is bad...
Over-Taxation,
Over-Unionization,
Over-Regulation
Inane Enviro Rules
and
UNLIMITED CIVIL LIABILTY, all have an effect on the cost calculations.
Add in The Standardized Shipping Container, and it’s little wonder you can’t even compete making plastics and SHAMPOO in America anymore!!
Do Chinese factories require large enviro compliance staffs, and an army of HR goons trained in lawsuit avoidance, “Sensitivity”, and “Gay Civil Rights”?
Do they have rubber rooms for non-productive or dangerous employees who should be TERMINATED, but Union Rules don’t allow it??
Do Chinese factories have armies of Lawyers to oversee the flood of frivilous racial Discrimination lawsuits, and ADA lawsuits?
Do Chinese factories hire extra staff to cover for FMLA abusing employees?
We’ve run OUR OWN jobs out of the country, and unless you think the term “Rust Belt” is something new , have been doing it since the 70’s.
Win Win situation.
It's as simple as that.
The Dow just hit 14,000 for the first time the other day and we've maintained historically low un-employment rates for several years with low inflation. You live in a cave or something?
You can not build real prosperity on cheap credit, and that is all that is fueling the economy now.
Credit is cheap because inflation is in check and appears to be set to stay that way. When inflation is high, putting your money directly into real assets is the best investment. When inflation is low, putting your money into places where people will borrow it is the best investment, and that drives down interest rates.
People really do have real jobs with real pay checks, and that's a fact. Whether their jobs are one kind or another is pretty irrelevant.
All the wringing of hands over America having a "service" economy misses the point. The jobs in Manhattan are almost entirely "service", and the people who work there make a lot of money and have done so for a century or two now. The fact that manufacturing is done in China now instead of Ohio only means that Ohio now has an economy more like Manhattan than it used to be. So what.
“One thing you left out about exporting our tenured professors jobs is the guy in Bangladesh is probably more patriotic and pro American than some of our teachers here.
Win Win situation.”
Lol, you’re 100% correct. I should have thought of that benefit. Then we’d have much better educated and more pro-American kids entering the work force.
I might start a national movement to outsource college professor jobs.
And, any economics professor who preaches free trade and open markets, and rails against protectionism, but still accepts tenure in his or her position, should be sentenced to 20 years of turning big rocks into little rocks for the crime of shameless hypocrisy (do as I say, not as I do).
When you adjust eth dow for the over 40% loss in value of the dollar in the past 5 or 6 years it would be at about 9000. About where it started.
“Because people, some of them Republicans, have no understanding of economics.
It’s as simple as that.”
Many do have an understanding of economics, but just don’t believe that economic theory answers all governmental policy questions.
It’s as simple as that.
Why would you adjust the Dow for the value of the Euro? Unless you're one of them European furriners?
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