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To: webboy45

The beginning is either magic or God.
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Nope! By definition there is cause before magic and God.


10 posted on 09/29/2007 7:04:15 PM PDT by Allen In Texas Hill Country
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To: Allen In So Cal

The beginning is either magic or God.
*************************************
Nope! By definition there is cause before magic and God.<<

Only if you believe that there is a cause before a beginning. And we’re back to magic or God.

Since there is NO adequate model, even in philosophy, a supernatural creation happened, and it is inexplicable to us...now. Magical, supernatural, God...it is. It is unexplained, and there are few likely current theories. Or you could play a word game that goes nowhere to advance understanding a phenomenon. A Priori Synthetic IIRC knowledge of the meaning of cause. Tautology. Truth by definition.

It would be like extending a continuous function definition, through an obvious dislocation. It’s a big divide by zero error.

DK


23 posted on 09/29/2007 10:09:01 PM PDT by Dark Knight
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To: Allen In So Cal; webboy45; LoneRangerMassachusetts; Tahts-a-dats-ago
I hope your (Allen's) "Nope! By definition there is cause before magic and God." was intended as a waggish parody of the mode of thought fashionable among atheists these days.

Almost the very definition of God is 'the-ground-of-all-Being' (that is, the reason there is something, rather than nothing), so insisting on a 'cause' for Him is an absurdity. Of course, that God is personal is missing from that definition--the impersonal Tao of Lao Tzu's thought fits just as well as the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. However, the intelligibility of the world to the human mind argues for an analogy (albeit improper) between the human person and the ground-of-all-Being (which analogy is summed up in Scripture as "come let us make Man in Our image and likeness"), and thus terming the ground-of-all-being 'God'. Of course us theists part ways with the deists by insisting (on the basis of experience--either our own, or that of others, e.g. Abraham) that the ground-of-all-being, while utterly incomprensible, is in some way enough like a human person that He choses to relate to human beings directly, and we Christians part ways with the rest of theists in insisting that His decisive way of relating to us was to assume our nature and become Incarnate to live among us, and die, and rise again from the dead.

Anyone who thinks the intelligibility of the world is easily explained by human beings evolving to adapt to their environment is advised to read Eugene Wigner's "The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Mathematics in the Natural Sciences" (and if necessary to take the math and physics courses needed to understand the entire paper).

38 posted on 10/01/2007 6:06:53 AM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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