[Michael.SF.]

I originally said: I have long held, w/o Lincoln, there would have been no Roosevelt (FDR, not Teddy).

Let me rephrase before this goes too much further:

If Lincoln had not succeeded in the CW, the door would not have been open for FDR to come along and take us further down the socialist hole of government dependency for everything.

[gusopol3]

you were clear. I doubt that any of that stuff amounts to much compared to telling a man you have the right to sell his wife and kids.