Romney’s Conservative Manifesto

The Virginian Federalist ^ | 09/22/2007 | Publius

[CharlesWayneCT]

The following is a letter written by Mitt Romney to the Washington Establishment. It is without a doubt one of the boldest statements made by a presidential candidate. As a Republican he says it exactly right. You may not support him, but if you are a true conservative you are going to agree with him. Many conservatives have already seen this letter and are taking it to heart.

Romney has been praised by many conservatives for taking this strong step toward getting our nation back on track. Richard A. Viguerie, author of Conservatives Betrayed: How George W. Bush and Other Big-Government Republicans Hijacked the Conservative Cause (Bonus Books, 2006), had this to say about Romney’s stance:

At last, a top-tier presidential candidate is paying attention to the discouraged, disheartened, and disillusioned base of the Republican Party. I commend Mitt Romney for urging the GOP leadership to return to its conservative values.

By releasing an ad chastising the Republican leadership for its excessive spending, immigration amnesty, and ethical slackness, Governor Romney has taken a small but significant step toward reclaiming the GOP for the grassroots conservatives who are its backbone.

I hope you will read Governor Romney's Letter and Watch the ad in its entirety.

[Colofornian]

Of course, I’ve got the benefit of first-person experience to inform my claim that the accusations in question are false. People who perpetuate such accusations are either ignorant (willfully or not) or liars. I leave it to God to sort out which is which.

Not really. You've basically just reduced all opposition to the LDS "gospel" to willful deception & outright stupidity, and you seem to make this claim with almost full sovereignty (able to scan every post and able to make some almost-divine ruling that "Yup, that claim is a lie." "Yup, that claim is ignorant.")

Tell us, are you able to make such almost-divine-like claims because you're already an LDS god (god-in-embryo), or have you just graduated to godhood early?

The bottom line is this: Romney’s intelligence is being challenged on the false premise that his religion is a cult. That premise is false because the evidences used to support it are simply untrue.

That itself is a lie. Listen if Jesus says, "the gates of hell shall not prevail against my church." And then a Joseph Smith-led church embraced by Mitt comes along and calls Jesus a liar, that the gates of hell did indeed COMPLETELY prevail against His Church for about 1,500 years, such church is automatically a "cult."

But, unfortunately, it’s more comfortable for some people to believe lies about us Mormons than to admit that they’ve been wrong. And a few of them seem to get some sort of perverse pleasure by perpetuating those lies.

What "lies" are there in presenting the fact that Mitt believes, like other Mormons believe, that those he's asking to vote for him belong to churches he (& other Mormons) believe are complete apostates? To qualify as an "apostate" means that you believe someone has COMPLETELY left the faith, whereas to believe someone is a heretic may mean they have only PARTIALLY left the faith (someone can be both orthodox on some matters, and heretical on others).

I will say it here loud and clear: Any Mormon who believes that every and all other members of different churches are automatically and inherently apostates of the faith, are liars and proclaimers of a false gospel. And this includes Mitt if he goes along with this spiehl.

[Colofornian]

The adult Sunday school studies both the Bible (SJV)

Oh, you mean the "insofarascorrectly translated" Bible?...which you would think would be the Joseph Smith "translation" (of course Joseph knew little Greek or Hebrew)...but, no...Salt Lake City Mormon HQ doesn't advertize or publish Joe's "translation" other than including some of his "translations" as footnotes...

Also,they do not denigrate other religions.

FUNNY (as in hilarious). Let's see now. The LDS publish a certain "scripture" known as Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith - History, verses 18 & 19 in which the LDS circulate world-wide and send their missionaries door to door to pedal. And what's the claim of those verses?

(1)EVERY single creed of every other church is an "abomination" to God. (No, that's not denigrating)

(2) Every other church's leadership is "corrupt." (No, I'm sure that's really a compliment, assures the spin artist from Maine).

(3) None of these churches are to be "joined."

I could go on with the content of these verses. Suffice it to say that perhaps you'd like to backtrack and re-state your supposition.

[broncobilly]

“CanaGuy provides you with a ton of evidence ...”

I was responding to post #5, which is one sentence, and no evidence.

If one wants to use “cult” as a contemptuous term, it is more deserving to those whose concept of being “Christian” is building web sites with lies and distortions about other faiths. I suspect that is what you call evidence. I wish there was a rule on FR that whenever someone posts that type of material they have to identify themselves, so we can see what faith or what group inspires such tripe.

[Grunthor]

“When Republicans act like Democrats, America loses.”

-Mitt Romney

The irony is palpable.

[fish hawk]

What you said, amen. Yet, if he is the Republican running I will vote for him (or anyone) other than the beast.

[Grunthor]

“...if you believe in it, it is a religion or perhaps ‘the’ religion;
and if you do not care one way or another about it, it is a sect;
but if you fear and hate it, it is a cult.” Leo Pfeffer. A humorous quotation, but one that is uncomfortably close to reality.

[Grunthor]

“The most liberal Governor in the nation’s history”

These kind of histrionics are unbecoming.

[Grunthor]

“Duncan Hunter in 08.”

But after he drops out who will you support?

[tantiboh]

~”Answer one simple question for me and I will believe what you have to say.

Do you believe that the Bible is the revealed Word of God...”~

Yes.

~”...and that what is prescribed within its pages is all you need to make it to heaven, that no other book is needed or that nothing needs to be added?”~

No.

I’m glad that you believe me.

[tantiboh]

~”With respect to that statement, I have never seen anyone on FR question his intelligence...”~

Please see post #5.

[EternalVigilance]

Me: “The most liberal Governor in the nation’s history”

You: "These kind of histrionics are unbecoming."

Really? Name me one other Governor who implemented gay marriage, passed and signed socialized medicine complete with taxpayer-funded abortions, whose executive departments completely homosexualized the public schools, and who signed a permanent assault weapons ban.

I'll await your response.

[tantiboh]

The term “LDS Church” is, as far as I understand, an appropriate term, though if expanded, it would mean “Latter-Day Saint Church,” which is, as we know, not the proper name of the Church.

I don’t think it’s ‘slothful’ to use the term ‘LDS Church.’ Just convenient.

[Grunthor]

“Really? Name me one other Governor who implemented gay marriage”

That either wrong or a flat out lie. The first I ever heard of Romney he was on Foxsnooze fighting AGAINST gay “marriage”.

Rest of the stuff...no argument there. I’m not voting for Romney but FGS, get a LITTLE BIT of a grip.

[maine-iac7]

You posted totantiboh" "I will say it here loud and clear: Any Mormon who believes that every and all other members of different churches are automatically and inherently apostates of the faith, are liars and proclaimers of a false gospel. And this includes Mitt if he goes along with this spiehl.

I would take it you're not a Catholic or you'd have a problem with the Pope's edict this year that all Protestant churches are heretical?

Per

"It is nevertheless difficult to see how the title of 'Church' could possibly be attributed to [Protestant communities], given that they do not accept the theological notion of the Church in the Catholic sense and that they lack elements considered essential to the Catholic Church."

the above from just one site on line -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/pope/story/0,,2123195,00.html...

[EternalVigilance]

Romney implemented gay marriage in Massachusetts. It’s a simple fact. He ordered the marriage licenses to be changed, and he ordered the justices of the peace to perform the ceremonies upon pain of firing.

[restornu]

It is not what I or you think it is how we are advised, but you have free will to choose as you please tantiboh!

Style Guide - The Name of the Church

[Grunthor]

“Romney implemented gay marriage in Massachusetts.”

What choice did he have? The legislature, following the orders of the Mass. Supremes passed the damned thing.

Or do you believe that there exists a dictatorship vis a vis the Gubernatorial seat in Massachusetts?

[tantiboh]

~”Not really. You’ve basically just reduced all opposition to the LDS “gospel” to willful deception & outright stupidity...”~

If it’s based on assertions that aren’t true, yeah, pretty much. But I’ll speak more on this point later.

~”...and you seem to make this claim with almost full sovereignty (able to scan every post and able to make some almost-divine ruling that “Yup, that claim is a lie.” “Yup, that claim is ignorant.”)”~

When you’ve spent 20 years studying and living LDS doctrine, you’ll have the same sort of expertise. In the meantime, I’d appreciate it if you’d stop telling me what I believe.

~”Tell us, are you able to make such almost-divine-like claims because you’re already an LDS god (god-in-embryo), or have you just graduated to godhood early?”~

Neither. As stated before, I’m able to tell truth from lies in this matter because I’m an expert on the subject.

I’ve got an unbelievably long way to go before I’m worthy of the reward that you refer to as becoming an “LDS god.” But I do know the doctrine and history of my faith better than most.

~”That itself is a lie. Listen if Jesus says, “the gates of hell shall not prevail against my church.” And then a Joseph Smith-led church embraced by Mitt comes along and calls Jesus a liar, that the gates of hell did indeed COMPLETELY prevail against His Church for about 1,500 years, such church is automatically a “cult.””~

We have differing interpretations of that scripture. What if the church He founded ceased to be His Church through the rebellion or corruption or murder of its members? Would the gates of hell then, perhaps, prevail against it? Just a thought exercise.

In any case, correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t you Protestant? This verse, by the logic which you apply, must condemn every non-Catholic denomination as a “cult.” Even if you are Catholic, surely this cannot be your meaning.

~”What “lies” are there in presenting the fact that Mitt believes, like other Mormons believe, that those he’s asking to vote for him belong to churches he (& other Mormons) believe are complete apostates?”~

None. But, then, those aren’t the accusations we’re dealing with here. In any case, you’re operating under a misconception, which I’ll explain below.

~”Any Mormon who believes that every and all other members of different churches are automatically and inherently apostates of the faith, are liars and proclaimers of a false gospel.”~

Who said anything about the members? I think there are many mainstream Christians (and Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc.) who sincerely try to follow that truth which they have embraced. Such people are not apostates; they simply haven’t learned the truth. That’s a crucial distinction, and if a Mormon claims that such people are lost to God, then that person is proclaiming a false Gospel. God will teach them in His own time, and each will have the opportunity to choose to accept.

But we do affirm that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the only organization on Earth that has been given His authority to act in His name and to receive revelation from Him for His Church and for the world. It’s a bold claim, but we make it humbly, gratefully, and with open arms of invitation to all who would know more.

Colofornian, you and I, of course, have butted heads on this topic in the past. It appears you still don’t know what I mean when I speak of deception vs. valid opposition. Allow me to illustrate.

An example of valid opposition:
“The Mormons claim that they have received revelation from God that adds to that contained in the Bible. I believe that the Bible is God’s Word, and that it is God’s design that we follow what is given us in the Bible and none else. Therefore, I believe that the LDS Church is false.”

This example highlights a core doctrinal difference between the LDS Church and mainstream Christianity. It is a valid point of discussion and debate. Opposing the Church on such grounds is honorable and appropriate, if said grounds are in line with your personal convictions.

An example of invalid opposition, aka deceit:
“Joseph Smith ‘translated’ the Book of Mormon by dictating the words to his wife while he peered into a hat. Therefore, Joseph Smith must be a false prophet, and the LDS Church is therefore false.”

This latter example is based on a lie. Historical documents amply explain and clarify the method of translation of the Book of Mormon, and it had very little to do with Joseph Smith’s wife and nothing to do with a hat. But it makes a good story when used to discredit the LDS Church. Such a method of opposition is deceit. The person promulgating this untruth may be a genuine liar or merely a dupe; either way, he is not telling the truth. As a member of the LDS Church active in apologetics for my faith, I decry such tactics wherever I see them. I learn a great deal about my faith while doing so, so it’s not a selfless practice.

/blather

[maine-iac7]

Calling the Church, LDS or Mormon Church would show irreverence towards the Lord.

One is counsel to either say the whole name, or the Church.

Member describing themselves as LDS non members some will use Mormons.

ONCE AGAIN - sllloooowwwwly - as I have answered your previous pseudo empirical posts, in my posts I have always used either the FULL name of the church as "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" - to differentiate it from the misguided break off church that was long, long ago excommunicated from the LDS - or referred to the church/members as LDS or Mormons.

Yet you continue to assert that, no.1, I don't refer to them in the full title (WRONG) and that,well, it's hard to translate your last line "Member describing themselves as LDS non members some will use Mormons." but if you mean the same as you posted before = you intimate that referring to the church as LDS is in error.

As I explained to you before, even the church refers to itself as LDS - case in point: Their web site is LDS.org (anyone wanting to learn from the horses mouth, as it were, and be better able to put restornu's frothing diatribes in the right box (waste) might enjoy the site.

As to Mormon, as I also explained, even though 'Mormon' is not the name of the church, but a name that became synonymous with it = members take no offense and often refer to themselves as "Mormon" and as members of "The Mormon Church" = they and the church are not as uptight or as close minded as you appear to be - nor do they ascribe to themselves the omnipotence you seem to think yourself in possession of...

Lest you assume I post in response to your tripe in order to explain anything to you, rest assured that I am not in any way concerned about not expectant of 'teaching' you anything. I leave closed minds to themselves. I answer only in the off chance that others may take your diatribes as gospel.

Otherwise, my response to your posts is -

[tantiboh]

~”Or do you believe that there exists a dictatorship vis a vis the Gubernatorial seat in Massachusetts?”~

That’s a good point, Grunthor. Some of the people who complain about Romney implementing the law that he was required by the other branches of the MA government to obey somehow at the same time make the ridiculous claim that Romney was some kind of dictator.

If he were a dictator, wouldn’t he have simply told the MA Supreme Court where to stick it?

It cannot be ignored that his actions after that decision (i.e. enforcing an obscure law, pushing for a constitutional amendment, etc.) set the gay marriage agenda back by at least a couple of years.