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To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl; js1138

js..Give me an example of a dreamer not associated with a physical body.

Irish...The issue is not whether dreams occur in the material brain, because of course they do. You dream, so does everyone else. The insurrmountable intellectual problem for evolutionary materialists is epistemological: “How do we ‘know’ we dream?” (or think, imagine, are conscious, etc.) Now either ‘what we can know” is strictly defined by materialistic empiricism (which is monism)or it is not because there are in fact two realms-—the natural or immaterial and the supernatural or immaterial. This last view is dualism. By the strict limitations enacted by empiricist monism dreams, imagination, etc., cannot exist because being immaterial or supernatural, they cannot be seen, heard, measured, weighed, etc. In other words,for dreams, etc., to exist as defined by empiricism, researchers should be able to see words and pictures scrolling through the brain accompanied by auditory sounds. But because the only things which can be seen are brain waves, etc., then by definition, your dreams js, do not exist even though you and everyone else,know they do.

Thus is evidenced the necessary mysticism, contradictions, self-delusion, etc. of this worldview.

The architects of evolutionary humanism were, and still are,power-hungry narcissists ready and willing to deceive and betray their adherents in order to empower, glorify, and enrich themselves at the expense of the deceived. Their power is wholly dependant upon supernatural belief and faith. The belief and faith of you, js, and many others. Once you stop believing and having faith in them, their power and the hold they have over your immaterial mind and will, will disappear.


341 posted on 09/28/2007 5:55:59 AM PDT by spirited irish
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To: spirited irish

I’m not going to paper over the problem of consciousness. It’s an unsolved problem at both the experimental and conceptual level. Not having answers is rather common in science, even if the popular press sometimes forgets.

We can “see” dreams via NMRI. We know, for example, that most, if not all mammals dream. We do not see pictures when we observe the brain working. Neither are there pictures inside a working computer. I don’t know what you are getting at with this line of argument.

My point is that we are making progress understanding how brains work, and the pace of progress is accelerating with better instrumentation and better computer models. It’s only the single most complex system that we know of. Not an easy nut to crack.


342 posted on 09/28/2007 8:11:00 AM PDT by js1138
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